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Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

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Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:19 am

I don't know whether the problem is with Democrats or with Obama's concern about his legacy, but some tragically dumb compromises are being made.

Obama's opening bargaining position on immigration is to suggest a 13-year path to citizenship. And that is only for the people who can scrape together thousands of dollars in fines! This allows Republicans to suppress the hispanic vote far more than they would be able to do on their own.

This is nonsense, it would be much better for hispanics to leave the citizenship issue unresolved, deal with the issue on its own merits later. For now, let the Republicans own what they think they want - no path to citizenship!

Even more disheartening, the right is successfully sabotaging the core mission of Obamacare - establish universal health care as our national goal.

The compromise that Obama offered Florida is reasonable. Florida gets to implement medicare through private sector, managed care. I see that as a fig leaf compromise, since the managed care is going to provide roughly the same services as traditional medicaid.

In Arkansas, Obama has agreed to fork over all the medicaid money, which AK will dispense to the poor for purchase of health insurance. The problem here is that it won't work, it will help only about half the uninsured population.
Half-a-loaf compromises are fine if a path to the full loaf remains. But in this case all leverage is lost, and hundreds of thousands are stranded without health care.

Texas has picked-up the scent, the Texas republicans are talking about cutting such a deal for themselves. That will leave a couple million people uninsured, with all economic/political pressure on the politicians to fix the whole problem removed.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Meade » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:54 pm

Huckleby wrote:the core mission of Obamacare - establish universal health care as our national goal

Universal health care is the core mission of obamacare. Noted. Thank you.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby snoqueen » Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:34 pm

What did you think it was?
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Sandi » Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:44 pm

snoqueen wrote:What did you think it was?


Campaigning to take back the House?
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Meade » Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:25 pm

It's core mission is to redistribute wealth.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:13 pm

Meade wrote:It's core mission is to redistribute wealth.

That is certainly a side-effect of universal health care. But the degree of this transfer of wealth has been wildly exaggerated and mythologized by opponents.

Many conservatives see the world as a giant zero-sum game. Any quarter that somebody else gets in help is simply a quarter out of their own pocket. End of story. Liberals see more interconnectedness. Investing in your community's health and education eventually redounds to the quality of life for you and your own family.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Sandi » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:26 pm

Huckleby wrote:Many conservatives see the world as a giant zero-sum game. Any quarter that somebody else gets in help is simply a straight-forward quarter out of their own pocket. End of story. Liberals see more interconnectedness. Investing in your community's health and education eventually redounds to the quality of life for you and your own family.


I think what you really mean, at least most progressives I know, is that we should strive for equality for all. That will never work.

Equal opportunity yes, but free men and women are not equal, and equal men and women are not free.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:39 pm

Sandi wrote: I think what you really mean, at least most progressives I know, is that we should strive for equality for all. That will never work.
In my experience, conservatives sincerely believe that this is what liberals want - equal outcomes. But liberals are just pushing for everyone to have a decent opportunity to succeed, and not even an equal opportunity. Just a safety net of access to health care and education.

I doubt I could ever in a million years make you believe that most liberals are not communists. Most liberals admire rich and successful people just as much as conservatives. Liberals too believe in self-reliance, but they balance it with other values.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Sandi » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:37 pm

Huckleby wrote:In my experience, conservatives sincerely believe that this is what liberals want - equal outcomes. But liberals are just pushing for everyone to have a decent opportunity to succeed, and not even an equal opportunity. Just a safety net of access to health care and education.

I doubt I could ever in a million years make you believe that most liberals are not communists. Most liberals admire rich and successful people just as much as conservatives. Liberals too believe in self-reliance, but they balance it with other values.


I was talking about progressives, not liberals. Haven't posted with you enough to know which you are, but I will guess from your response that you are a "liberal." In which case that would not include you.

Everyone has equal access to education, but only emergency medical before Obamacare. As for safety net, that is a scarey code-word that can mean many many things.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby rabble » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:48 pm

Sandi wrote:I was talking about progressives, not liberals. ....

As for safety net, that is a scarey code-word that can mean many many things.

That's some powerful Kool-aid you keep drinking, Sandi.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Sandi » Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:52 pm

rabble wrote:That's some powerful Kool-aid you keep drinking, Sandi.


Is that available in a 32 oz supersize?
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby fennel » Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:03 pm

.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:27 pm

Mooching Off Medicaid

Paul Krugman tosses some ideological grenades:

Conservatives like to say that their position is all about economic freedom, and hence making government’s role in general, and government spending in particular, as small as possible. And no doubt there are individual conservatives who really have such idealistic motives.

When it comes to conservatives with actual power, however, there’s an alternative, more cynical view of their motivations — namely, that it’s all about comforting the comfortable and afflicting the afflicted, about giving more to those who already have a lot. And if you want a strong piece of evidence in favor of that cynical view, look at the current state of play over Medicaid.


Krugman criticizes the medicaid deal struck with Florida as corporate corruption. I think he is too harsh, but OK, some truth there.

If Krugman didn't like Florida, he really isn't gonna like Arkansas and Texas. I've seen only one quick analysis about the emerging boondoggle in Arkansas:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/politi ... 043266.php

This draws attention to two pretty important national issues: the first is the persistent gap between the faith conservatives place in the “efficiency” of private-sector health insurance and all the available evidence. And the second is the emerging long-term conservative strategy of undermining Obamacare by limiting its “public” elements as much as possible and then chipping away at the regulations that make it available and the subsidies that make it affordable. This is precisely what Douglas Holtz-Eakin and Avik Roy called for in their much-discussed recent op-ed on how conservatives should adjust to the enactment of Obamacare.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:03 pm

http://www.woi-tv.com/story/21481832/br ... -iowa-plan

The Republican governor of Iowa has rejected medicaid expansion. His "Healthy Iowa Plan" will be structured on this philosophy:

"If you live at the poverty line or below, then you become part of Healthy Iowa. People in the program would pay at least part of their bills - depending on how much they make and how hard they try to make themselves healthier."

The anti-government party is now going to have the state determine how hard you are trying, and charge you accordingly. Not a terrible idea ideologically, I suppose. Insane in practice.
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Re: Dems giving away store on immigration & obamacare

Postby Huckleby » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:41 pm

FDR used to complain that Republicans always said, "I can do the same thing for you as the Democrats, and it won't cost you anything."

Nothing has changed. The Iowa governor has rejected the money needed to improve health care, and he claims he has a "plan" to do it all without spending an additional penny. Same sophistry from our own governor.
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