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Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

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Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:18 pm

Why? He's obstructing the confirmation of CIA head nominee John Brennan. He wants the Obama administration to be absolutely forthright that they will not use War on Terror powers to kill/assassinate/drone-target American citizens on US soil without trial. Brennan himself said that he would not use CIA powers on American soil, so that's good, but Holder and Obama haven't been very clear in their statements on this issue.

NYT on the filibuster: http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2013 ... omination/

Novelty website: http://israndpaulstilltalking.com/

Live video (still going at the time of this posting): http://www.c-span.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN2/
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:21 pm

He's getting close to topping the length of Bernie Sander's 2010 filibuster: http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/10 ... r-20101211

Still nowhere close to the longest filibuster in US history, though.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:24 pm

Image
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby DCB » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:19 pm

Its nice to see a constitutional purist standing up (literally!) for actual constitutional positions.

I probably disagree with 80% of Paul's positions, but on this he's spot on.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:29 pm

I don't understand why Holder/Obama don't just cave and say, "OK, no, we will not use our powers to kill people on American soil without trial, and we deem such actions to be unconstitutional".

The downside is that they will be seen as caving to GOP pressure, but the longer this goes on and the clearer the case becomes for Paul and his fellow protesters, the dumber the administration looks. Do they really want to hold out on reserving the right to kill people on American soil?

If the administration truly does want to reserve the right to drone bomb Americans (hypothetically), what's stopping Holder from lying about it? If you don't balk at killing citizens without trial, then I don't see why you'd let integrity and honesty get in the way of your political plans.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby rrnate » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:31 pm

Presidents pretty much never give up any kind of power if they can help it, right? Not sure the last time one did, but it's been quite a while.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby pjbogart » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:44 pm

I suspect there's a lot more to this story than we're seeing in the news. Perhaps the President is hesitant to declare drone strikes within the US illegal because it would make them illegal overseas as well. Perhaps the mere acknowledgement of Paul's filibuster simply feeds the kind of moronic paranoia we expect from people like John Henry.

At any rate, I'd be careful about heaping too much praise on Rand Paul. The man is a snake and his filibuster is far more likely political than philosophical.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:51 pm

pjbogart wrote:At any rate, I'd be careful about heaping too much praise on Rand Paul. The man is a snake and his filibuster is far more likely political than philosophical.
Why not both political and philosophical? If you have a legitimate philosophical point that is also very popular with voters, but in direct contrast to the apparent philosophy of your political opponents, why not hammer it all day long? At best, Obama's hand will be forced. At worst (from your perspective), Rand Paul will gain some political capital.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby Meade » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:56 pm

Imagine, if you possibly can, Attorney Generals Ashcroft, Gonzales, or Mukasey, speaking for President Bush saying:
“It is possible, I suppose, to imagine an extraordinary circumstance in which it would be necessary and appropriate under the Constitution and applicable laws of the United States for the President to authorize the military to use lethal force within the territory of the United States.”

You Obama voters would have gone out. of. your. minds. with rage.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/02 ... ling-memos
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby pjbogart » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:18 pm

What about a hijacked plane? What about a domestic terrorist or foreign national within our borders about to commit an act of terrorism? I suspect that the Patriot Act covers such scenarios. It's not so difficult to imagine a national security issue arising within our borders... we all saw one on 9-11-2001, didn't we?

The lunatics are apparently envisioning some situation where the President orders a drone strike on Chris Christie's favorite KFC, but I suspect the President's resistance to Rand Paul's wind-baggery is a bit more complicated.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:48 pm

pjbogart wrote:What about a hijacked plane? What about a domestic terrorist or foreign national within our borders about to commit an act of terrorism? I suspect that the Patriot Act covers such scenarios. It's not so difficult to imagine a national security issue arising within our borders... we all saw one on 9-11-2001, didn't we?
Killing people who are in the act of committing crimes is not a legal mystery. Police can do this, it doesn't even require the federal government.
The lunatics are apparently envisioning some situation where the President orders a drone strike on Chris Christie's favorite KFC
What you've described here is much closer to what actually happens in drone strikes - targets are zapped while going about their everyday business; they may not be actively "terrorizing" at the time, as was the case in your first scenario.

btw, the filibuster is still going (12+ hours). Sen. Paul has a bunch of supporters speaking now too. Earlier today, Sen. Wyden D-OR gave a pretty spicy speech in support of the filibuster.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:55 pm

I think that Ron Johnson is going to say something soon.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby Huckleby » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:01 am

ArturoBandini wrote:Why? He's obstructing the confirmation of CIA head nominee John Brennan. He wants the Obama administration to be absolutely forthright that they will not use War on Terror powers to kill/assassinate/drone-target American citizens on US soil without trial.


Ayn Rand Paul is pulling a cheap, self-aggrandizing publicity stunt to make points with his anti-government, paranoid base.

Do you realize that the sales of ammunition have soared in the past few months because some people believe that Obama is about to disarm them? We are a nation of fools.

Yes, I see the logic of Paul's point. Like 99% of the population, I agree that drones should not be tracking and attacking U.S. Citizens in our homeland. A filibuster is not needed to deal with this issue, in fact the resolution that emerges from this stunt will be substantively meaningless. This is not about substance, it's politics.
Last edited by Huckleby on Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:04 am

pjbogart wrote:What about a hijacked plane? What about a domestic terrorist or foreign national within our borders about to commit an act of terrorism? I suspect that the Patriot Act covers such scenarios. It's not so difficult to imagine a national security issue arising within our borders... we all saw one on 9-11-2001, didn't we?
Paul just addressed this very issue when raised by Dick Durbin (who overall supports the filibuster). The key distinction is between "active engagement in combat/terror" and inferred past/future engagement in terror activities. Paul said that the use of force against a hijacked plane headed for the capitol building is not in conflict with the Constitution.
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Re: Rand Paul filibuster at 8.5 hours and still going

Postby ArturoBandini » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:07 am

Huckleby wrote:A filibuster is not needed to deal with this issue, in fact the resolution that emerges from this stunt will be substantively meaningless. This is not about substance, it's politics.
We're talking Washington DC here. How do you even distinguish substance from politics?
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