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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:20 pm

Mad Howler wrote:
BSH wrote:I'll just start with the last 15 years to keep it simple. UK, Australia, and Canada. That's just the Western, "free" nations; I'm not even going to go to the more openly authoritarian governments.

I'd like to see examples of governments that did NOT, later on down the line, use gun registration as a tool to support gun confiscation. It goes against everything in human nature that such an example could ever have existed.


Er, I think you were asked to support your position with "evidence". Absent of that I get the feeling that the objective of your posts has more to do with distraction, although you may have not been aware of that.


Well, heck, I thought the cases of UK & Australia were common knowledge. Aren't the anti-gun folks always talking about how the gun seizure program in Australia led to a decline in homicide rates? (It cannot be concluded as such, according to academic studies, but that's another subject.) After the UK 1997 Firearms act, 162,000 pistols and 700 tons of ammunition and related equipment were handed in by an estimated 57,000 people - 0.1% of the population, or 1 in every 960 persons. (Wikipedia). Australia - This scholarly article contains some notable disclaimers making it evident that it is impossible to conclude that the Australian rifle seizure program can be credited with reducing the homicide rate. Canada is less well known. One can quibble over This one. But there is another law whereby the Canadian government banned .25 & .32 handguns. Since handguns had been registered since 1934, guess what? This is actually a slow-motion confiscation, since existing owners were allowed to hold on to their weapons until they die, then they have to be turned over to the government (but they can't buy ammunition anymore, anyway). Info.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:44 pm

wack wack wrote:Still waiting to learn all about the history of gun confiscation.


What's the matter, Google doesn't work on your computer? Can't be bothered to try learning on your own or read more than just the usual headlines? Well, that's okay, most people are like that. You fit in just fine.

Sorry, I don't visit here very often.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:15 am

BSH wrote:
wack wack wrote:Still waiting to learn all about the history of gun confiscation.


What's the matter, Google doesn't work on your computer? Can't be bothered to try learning on your own or read more than just the usual headlines? Well, that's okay, most people are like that. You fit in just fine.

Sorry, I don't visit here very often.


Oh no, my Google works fine, but there must be a problem with yours: lots of info on "gun control," nothing on confiscation. "Control" doesn't equal "confiscation," whether that's convenient to your propaganda or not.

Furthermore, as those of us who graduated at least 8th grade know: you made the assertion, you need to support it.

I think I understand why you don't visit here very often.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:53 pm

I see how you are...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0


You're one of those folks who just denies anything that you don't agree with. You could even have picked the Australian example and looked up quotes that appear to support the notion that their gun seizure program reduced the homicide rate. But you'd rather not be bothered with real facts, they're just too messy. You won't address the substance of the point, so you just redefine the words to mean something else. Yes, you can say that "confiscation" is a form of "control." Does that matter? No. It's still confiscation. You asked for cites, I gave them to you.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featu...n/2081848359001

Here's one just for you.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:08 pm

Here is the section of UK law that specifies how newly-banned weapons are to be handled. A class of previously-legal weapons is banned. The government requires people to turn in their guns, or they are subject to criminal punishment. That's a confiscation program.

Or would you like to redefine confiscation? Maybe you should spell out what you mean by "confiscation." I understand it to describe a situation where a person is deprived of their property by acts of the others (in this case, the government).
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Is this what is being proposed in the US. Tinfoil hat comes to mind.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:53 am

BSH wrote:I see how you are...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0


You're one of those folks who just denies anything that you don't agree with. You could even have picked the Australian example and looked up quotes that appear to support the notion that their gun seizure program reduced the homicide rate. But you'd rather not be bothered with real facts, they're just too messy. You won't address the substance of the point, so you just redefine the words to mean something else. Yes, you can say that "confiscation" is a form of "control." Does that matter? No. It's still confiscation. You asked for cites, I gave them to you.

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/video/featu...n/2081848359001

Here's one just for you.


Your first link is a link to Clinton musing about what "is" is. The second is a right-wing gun nut spreading paranoid, delusional lies like you're trying to do here. Neither is a link to evidence of even ONE confiscation, let alone:

BSH wrote:Here's the only objection to "universal" background checks: the government will use them to create a de facto gun registration system, which historically always leads to confiscation.


"Historically always" implies there should be not one but many examples of gun confiscation. you can't even link to one.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:59 am

BSH wrote:Here is the section of UK law that specifies how newly-banned weapons are to be handled. A class of previously-legal weapons is banned. The government requires people to turn in their guns, or they are subject to criminal punishment. That's a confiscation program.

Or would you like to redefine confiscation? Maybe you should spell out what you mean by "confiscation." I understand it to describe a situation where a person is deprived of their property by acts of the others (in this case, the government).


Seems like you've already redefined "confiscation" to include "surrender," which it does not.

Would you be so kind as to quote the section regarding previously legal but newly banned guns?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 am

wack wack wrote:Would you be so kind as to quote the section regarding previously legal but newly banned guns?


It's a hot link. All you have to do is click on it.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:19 am

BSH wrote:
wack wack wrote:Would you be so kind as to quote the section regarding previously legal but newly banned guns?


It's a hot link. All you have to do is click on it.


What I see is an explanation of how local authorities can conduct buybacks. That's not confiscation.

But let's pretend you're right, and it's about confiscation: that's one. As you claimed this is a historical issue, there must be many more. Bring em' on.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:58 am

wack wack wrote:
Seems like you've already redefined "confiscation" to include "surrender," which it does not.

I just confiscated some Doritos from the vending machine.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby O.J. » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:06 pm

This BSH character is dumber than a bag of Sandis.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Dangerousman » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:52 pm

snoqueen wrote:If your neighbor lives in a limey-green house with white trim and a white garage next door, you might want to leave him alone (or maybe just leave) when he's cutting the grass.

Just sayin'.

It looks uncomfortably like my own neighborhood -- but wait. We already had our gun-nut tragedy when someone down the street went out and murdered his wife and then came home and shot himself. Isn't one enough?


If limey-green houses scare you Sno, then maybe you ought to come to my neighborhood. I doubt that there's a limey-green house within a mile. Also, I doubt you'd find a neighborhood in the city with a lower crime rate.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby david cohen » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:33 am

There is a good overview of the Heller decision and the intrinsic limitations of the Second Amendment here:

http://news.yahoo.com/constitution-chec ... 10053.html
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:57 pm

Latest Wisconsin poll on proposed firearms legislation. Notice the overwhelming support for background checks on all gun sales.
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