MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Saturday, September 20, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 65.0° F  Light Rain
Collapse Photo Bar

Michelle Shocked: God hates faggots

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby lukpac » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:02 pm

And just so you know:

@ajmorelli @korbykorby Not Fags. Faggots. The quote said Faggots. Get your facts straight. #shortsharpshocked #truthvsreality


http://twitter.com/MShocked/status/314114910734921728
lukpac
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby Stomach » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:25 pm

lukpac wrote:And just so you know:

@ajmorelli @korbykorby Not Fags. Faggots. The quote said Faggots. Get your facts straight. #shortsharpshocked #truthvsreality


http://twitter.com/MShocked/status/314114910734921728


Reading tweets and retweets @blahblah makes my head hurt. I'm a crabby old man, I guess.

#crabbyoldman
(Is that how I do it?)
Stomach
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1329
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 12:28 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby DCB » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:57 pm

Stomach wrote:Reading tweets and retweets @blahblah makes my head hurt. I'm a crabby old man, I guess.

#crabbyoldman
(Is that how I do it?)

I think the canonical form is #getoffmylawn
DCB
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby lukpac » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:25 am

Here's her statement:

I do not, nor have I ever, said or believed that God hates homosexuals (or anyone else). I said that some of His followers believe that. I believe intolerance comes from fear, and these folks are genuinely scared. When I said "Twitter that Michelle Shocked says "God hates faggots," I was predicting the absurd way my description of, my apology for, the intolerant would no doubt be misinterpreted. The show was all music, and the audience tweets said they enjoyed it. The commentary came about ten minutes later, in the encore.

And to those fans who are disappointed by what they've heard or think I said, I'm very sorry: I don't always express myself as clearly as I should. But don't believe everything you read on facebook or twitter. My view of homosexuality has changed not one iota. I judge not. And my statement equating repeal of Prop 8 with the coming of the End Times was neither literal nor ironic: it was a description of how some folks - not me - feel about gay marriage.

The show, and the rant, was spontaneous. As for those applauding my so-called stance that "God Hates Faggots," I say they should be met with mercy, not hate. And I hope that what remains of my audience will meet that intolerance with understanding, even of those who might hate them.

Folks wonder about my sexuality, but denying being gay is like saying I never beat my husband. My sexuality is not at issue. What is being questioned is my support for the LGBT community, and that has never wavered. Music and activism have always been part of my work and my journey, which I hope and intend to continue. I'd like to say this was a publicity stunt, but I'm really not that clever, and I'm definitely not that cynical.

But I am damn sorry. If I could repeat the evening, I would make a clearer distinction between a set of beliefs I abhor, and my human sympathy for the folks who hold them. I say this not because I want to look better. I have no wish to hide my faults, and - clearly - I couldn't if I tried.


And a follow-up:

I believe in a God who loves everyone, and my faith tells me to do my best to also love everyone. Everyone: gay or straight, stridently gay, self-righteously faithful; left or right, far left, far right; good, bad, or indifferent. That’s the law: everyone.

I may disagree with someone’s most fervently held belief, but I will not hate them. And in this controversy, that means speaking for Christians with opinions I in no way share about homosexuality. Will I endorse them? Never. Will I disavow them? Never.

I stand accused of forsaking the LGBT community for a Christianity which is – hear me now – anathema to my understanding of faith. I will no doubt take future flack for saying so. I’m accused of believing that “God hates fags” and that the repeal of Prop 8 will usher in the End Times. Well, if I caused such an absurdity, I am damn sorry. To be clear: I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of any so-called faith preaching intolerance of anyone. Again, anyone: straight or gay, believers or not: that’s the law.

That means upholding my punk rock values in the most evangelical enclaves and, in this case, speaking up for the most fearful of fundamentalists in, well, a San Francisco music hall full of Michelle Shocked fans.

As an artist in this time of unbearable culture wars, I understand: this means trouble, and this is neither the first nor last time trouble has come my way. And that’s fine by me.

I know the fear many in the evangelical community feel about homosexual marriage, as I understand the fear many in the gay community feel toward the self-appointed faithful. I have and will continue speaking to both. Everything else – facebook, twitter, whatever – is commentary.


http://www.spin.com/articles/michelle-s ... infacebook

I would say that to call that obtuse would be charitable. It still isn't clear if she (maybe?) "loves the sinner but hates the sin", or...

And her take on what she said isn't really correct. Here's exactly what was said:

"...So it's not too late. You can jump into this Jesus gang any time you want.

But, um, I was in a prayer meeting yesterday, and you gotta appreciate how scared, how scared folks on that side of the equation are. I mean...from their vantage point, and I really shouldn't say "their", because it's mine too. Um we are at nearly at the end of time. And...from our vantage point, uh, we're gonna be, uh...I think maybe Chinese water torture is gonna be the means, the method. Once prop 8 gets, uh, instated, and once um, preachers are held at gun point and forced to marry the homosexuals, I'm pretty sure that that will be the signal for Jesus to come on back. [Audience member: 'What?'] You said you wanted reality. [laughs] If someone would be so gracious as to please tweet out 'Michelle Shocked just said from stage "God hates faggots"'. Would you do it now?"

Some of the audience is clearly confused and/or upset, and she does nothing to attempt to clarify or diffuse the situation for the rest of the set, even after the PA is turned off.

Here's the whole second set:

https://soundcloud.com/therealtofuandwh ... 2nd-yoshis

It's arguably pretty painful to listen to.

And apparently The Harmony is the only show that isn't yet officially cancelled.
lukpac
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Madison

I'm shocked! Shocked!

Postby Mean Scenester » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:14 am

The fact that I'm even aware of this "controversy" is just one more reason to hate Twitter, as far as I'm concerned.

Snoresville, USA, Daddy-o. Wake me when somebody relevant says something equally so.
Mean Scenester
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:56 pm

Once prop 8 gets, uh, instated, and once um, preachers are held at gun point and forced to marry the homosexuals...

Bullshit, Michelle. No preacher would be forced to marry anyone. But civil marriage services could not be denied based on sexual orientation and preachers who wanted to could officiate at gay marriages.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 19880
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: I'm shocked! Shocked!

Postby fennel » Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:12 pm

Mean Scenester wrote:The fact that I'm even aware of this "controversy" is just one more reason to hate Twitter, as far as I'm concerned.
Don't hate the Twitter, brother. Hate the Twit.
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3173
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby penquin » Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:22 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Bullshit, Michelle. No preacher would be forced to marry anyone.


Exactly. There could be fines involved, and jail time if the fines are not paid. But it is a lil' dramatic to claim anyone would be forced, at gunpoint, to perform a marriage ceremony.
penquin
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby lukpac » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:35 am

Getting everything cleared up now:

Unfortunately, I didn’t get to ask her any of the questions I had hoped to, and didn’t hear her clarify anything this morning as she wouldn’t answer the phone when I called. And I tried. Repeatedly. When she did answer, she just read some of her “Open Letter” that was released yesterday. If I remember correctly, she picked up a second time, but was obsessed with the delay between the phone conversation and when the sound came through her computer speakers that her paranoia took over. I tried to tell her to turn down the sound on her computer and just talk to me on the phone, but she began counting the seconds of the delay. She later tweeted that to music journalist Chris Willman of Yahoo music that she thought I “was going to ‘fact check’ during the delay the way you do”.


Stomach and Mean Scenester should appreciate this:

Yet she has attacked him mercilessly via Twitter) Instead of talking with me – human to human, Shocked decided she wanted to continue to speak her own, strange version of reality via twitter. Michelle seems to be somewhat obsessed with the Twitters these days. As you can hear from the recording from Sunday night, it was that way during the show. She actually agreed to come on the show via twitter:


http://crooksandliars.com/nicolesandler ... ndler-trie

I don't think anybody has a clue what's going on or what she really thinks, but at this point I'm not sure it matters.
lukpac
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:54 am

penquin wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Bullshit, Michelle. No preacher would be forced to marry anyone.

There could be fines involved, and jail time if the fines are not paid.

More bullshit on your part. No law can force a religion to accept gays. First Amendment and all that.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 19880
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby rabble » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:25 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
penquin wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Bullshit, Michelle. No preacher would be forced to marry anyone.

There could be fines involved, and jail time if the fines are not paid.

More bullshit on your part. No law can force a religion to accept gays. First Amendment and all that.

Okay, hold on a second.

It sounds like Penqy and Michelle believe that a minister or a priest or a rabbi is already forced to marry any pair of heterosexuals who step up and says "marry us."

Is this true? I've never heard of anyone ever fined for refusing to marry somebody for any reason but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened I guess.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6157
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates fags

Postby lukpac » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:29 am

rabble wrote:It sounds like Penqy and Michelle believe that a minister or a priest or a rabbi is already forced to marry any pair of heterosexuals who step up and says "marry us."

Is this true?


Of course it isn't true.
lukpac
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:51 pm
Location: Madison

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates faggots

Postby HawkHead » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:16 am

I was previously divorced.

My current wife is catholic and their priest wouldn't marry us. So we got married at my church and she has now converted.
HawkHead
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:29 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates faggots

Postby rabble » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:22 pm

Well all righty then. You can refuse to marry a heterosexual couple but you damn well better marry them gay folk if ya know what's good for ya.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6157
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Michelle Shocked: God hates faggots

Postby penquin » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:47 pm

It sounds like Penqy and Michelle believe that a minister or a priest or a rabbi is already forced to marry any pair of heterosexuals who step up and says "marry us."


"Already forced"? Nope, not what I'm trying to say at all. (Hence my use of the words "could be" rather than "are" in my original post)

What I was trying to say is that it is dramatic to worry about a gun being held to the head of a minister in order to make him perform a GLBT wedding. If the law was to interject itself into the situation, then fines would be more realistic way of enforcement. A strong test case would probably have to involve a "for hire" minister (advertises and has performed all kinds of different ceremonies) who backs out of doing a gay wedding.
penquin
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:19 pm

PreviousNext

Return to National Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar