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Guest Workers

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:43 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

It seems like both sides of the immigration debate agree that having a Guest Worker program is a good idea for the U.S., and now they are arguing over the numbers.

I thought the greatest triumph of America was the melting pot thing. We're a nation of immigrants, the constant stream of energy is our secret weapon. America - the place of freedom where anybody can be anything.

So now we are going to become like Europe, importing disposable brown people to do the dirty work as needed, a servant class. Our ancestors came here to find work, why can't new Americans come for that purpose? What has changed?

I can see how many in the Republican party love the idea of a non-voting class of cheap workers. Why is there no outrage from anybody else?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:34 am

This is nothing new. Farms have been using migrant workers to harvest their crops for many decades.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:54 am

Henry Vilas wrote:This is nothing new. Farms have been using migrant workers to harvest their crops for many decades.


Right. The issue is the status of such people in the future. Actually, there are two separate issues: the fate of immigrants who have been living here for years, and a policy that allows new workers to come to this country as labor demand dictates.

The fact that the long-standing residents will get some sort of legal status is inevitable and uncontroversial. But the Republicans seem to have negotiated a sweet deal on the disputed issues. 1) Immigrants living here now are mostly never going to get citizenship, or at best some will get to vote after the current generation of politicians are retired. 2) In the future, the teeming masses will enter our country under the unAmerican status of "Guest Worker", and likely will never have permanent status or political rights. This is brand new and ugly, IMO.

Why did the Irish and Germans and Jews get to come to our country and be citizens, yet it's not OK for hispanics today? Immigrant groups have always come here to work, and every group has been resented for "taking our jobs away."
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:02 pm

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... backs.html
Republican congressman Don Young yesterday, reminiscing, “My father had a ranch; we used to have 50-60 wetbacks to pick tomatoes.”

Heee heee heee. That should help that Republican outreach.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:07 pm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/eur ... story.html

Wash Post has an excellent article on the experience in Germany with their Turkish guest workers.

The guest workers typically never returned to Turkey, surprise, surprise. And since they have no rights or citizenship, they live on the margins as a giant community of second class, unintegrated people, resentful of their German overlords.

Guest Workers are no better than indentured servants of days gone by. Disgusting.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:47 pm

Image

"Diversity and the Myth of White Privilege."
Huckleby wrote:The fact that the long-standing residents will get some sort of legal status is inevitable and uncontroversial. But the Republicans seem to have negotiated a sweet deal on the disputed issues. 1) Immigrants living here now are mostly never going to get citizenship, or at best some will get to vote after the current generation of politicians are retired. 2) In the future, the teeming masses will enter our country under the unAmerican status of "Guest Worker", and likely will never have permanent status or political rights. This is brand new and ugly, IMO.

Why did the Irish and Germans and Jews get to come to our country and be citizens, yet it's not OK for hispanics today? Immigrant groups have always come here to work, and every group has been resented for "taking our jobs away."


For me, the big issue about immigration and/or amnesty, is Affirmative Action.

Unlike the Germans and the Irish who came to the US, since the passage and constant expansion of Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity laws, policies and practices, all the workers we are about to nationalize today get to skip in line in front of all the unemployed people we already have looking for a job.

I consider any policy of amnesty without a revision to our country's equal opportunity policy, to be the verge of an atrocity.

Dem. Sen. Jim Webb wrote:In an odd historical twist that all Americans see but few can understand, many programs allow recently arrived immigrants to move ahead of similarly situated whites whose families have been in the country for generations. These programs have damaged racial harmony. And the more they have grown, the less they have actually helped African-Americans, the intended beneficiaries of affirmative action as it was originally conceived.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby kurt_w » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:03 pm

Ah, Bludgeon's back. I believe the last time you posted here was on election day, right? You were pretty confident there that Romney was going to win. In fact, you'd spent weeks attacking Nate Silver, and suggesting that Benghazi etc. would sink Obama's re-election.

Just out of curiosity, did the sudden unexpected turn of events cause you to re-evaluate any of your beliefs, or change how you look at the right-wing media/blogosphere?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby snoqueen » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:13 pm

...all the workers we are about to nationalize today get to skip in line in front of all the unemployed people we already have looking for a job.


Stop right there. You aren't making sense.

We are considering granting a new status to workers, as you say above. Workers are people who have a job.

Unemployed people are looking for a job (or depending on their situation are not, but they are in any case jobless).

The new-status workers are not skipping in line in front of anyone. They have jobs and do not need to wait in line at the unemployment bureau in front of, behind, or among those who are job hunting.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:32 pm

The rumors I'm reading about the immigration bill suggest that there may be some path to citizenship for guest workers. That could make the guest worker program a good idea imo, even if it is a long path.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:34 am

snoqueen wrote:
...all the workers we are about to nationalize today get to skip in line in front of all the unemployed people we already have looking for a job.


Stop right there. You aren't making sense.

We are considering granting a new status to workers, as you say above. Workers are people who have a job.

Unemployed people are looking for a job (or depending on their situation are not, but they are in any case jobless).

The new-status workers are not skipping in line in front of anyone. They have jobs and do not need to wait in line at the unemployment bureau in front of, behind, or among those who are job hunting.


Fine: illegal aliens.

All the fuss lefties make about semantics, I use the word "workers" to try to find a nice way to describe the new nationalized demographic that are about to, by virtue of a warped interpretation of equal opportunity policies and laws, jump in line in front of everyone who's not equally protected by those laws.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby pjbogart » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:04 am

kurt_w wrote:Ah, Bludgeon's back. I believe the last time you posted here was on election day, right? You were pretty confident there that Romney was going to win. In fact, you'd spent weeks attacking Nate Silver, and suggesting that Benghazi etc. would sink Obama's re-election.


Fitting that his first post is of Don Quixote jousting with a windmill.

I always got the impression that Republicans attach themselves to fake issues in hopes that they can gain some traction. A co-worker of mine was convinced that "Fast and Furious" would lead to Obama's impeachment because Obama essentially "murdered" that border agent. But at the time, right-wing radio and FoxNews were pounding the story 24-7, even after the story was fleshed out and it was clear that neither Holder nor Obama had anything to do with the program.

But my all time favorite is still the "Mosque at Ground Zero". I mean, it had its own news intro and everything. Except it wasn't a mosque and it wasn't at Ground Zero and everyone knew it but they pushed it as some major scandal anyway. It had all the hallmarks of great Republican propaganda. Racism, fear-mongering, complete fucking lies... the whole shebang.

So here we go again. Racism and fear-mongering. A very specific outreach to poor white folks who hate affirmative action because they're convinced that their B- in Geometry would have snuck them into Harvard if not for all the Negroes (and now Mexicans) who took their spot. See? All of your problems in life are the fault of minorities stealing your lunch. It would actually be humorous if it wasn't so effective.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:20 am

Under the coming reform bill, before immigrants can apply for citizenship, they first have to get a green card:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/n ... 89500.html
Then there are the costs of obtaining a green card. Under the Senate plan, the price tag will reach into the “thousands,” according to one source, who points out that applicants would have at least a decade to save for the penalties and fees. These fines would help offset the cost of the bill, which is expected to include billions of dollars in new spending for border security alone.

Reportedly, the immigration "compromise" is going to make it relatively easy for immigrants to get a legal status, they pay $500 and submit to a background check. But if they want to vote - whoah! not so fast. They are supposed to spend 13 years saving money out of their typically low incomes (rather than say, saving for the education of their children.)

Insane! Put yourself in their position! Can you imagine spending a decade saving any income you have after expenses so that at the end of the rainbow you can simply vote?

Immigration groups and democrats are going to have to fight this after it passes.
Last edited by Huckleby on Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby wack wack » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:23 am

Bludgeon wrote:Fine: illegal aliens.

All the fuss lefties make about semantics, I use the word "workers" to try to find a nice way to describe the new nationalized demographic that are about to, by virtue of a warped interpretation of equal opportunity policies and laws, jump in line in front of everyone who's not equally protected by those laws.


Yeah, really, why fuss about "semantics," or definitions, for that matter?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:33 am

Who are immigrants (legal or otherwise) cutting ahead in line to get those menial farm labor jobs?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby peripat » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:09 am

To be fair, a lot of those workers are skilled tech types, you know, the kind of workers employers claim they can't find without going out of the country
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