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The gun thread

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Re: The gun thread

Postby DCB » Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:55 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
One was a provision to bar state and local governments from releasing information about gun ownership, sponsored by Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.). It would penalize states and localities that reveal data on licenses, permits and locations of gun owners by docking 5 percent of the locality's community policing funding.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/1 ... 10512.html

Well thank fucking God they passed this. I was so worried that we might be able to see data on the number of gun permits. It's not as though I can find out how many people have driver's licenses or how many people have fishing licenses.

I'm sure people can feel a whole lot safer. I know I do.

Seriously, two dozen democrats voted for this?
But the Senate couldn't pass a background check supported by 90% of Americans?

I guess they're looking to score that crucial "mentally ill and/or violence felons who like assault weapons" demographic.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:You quibble. We have a constitutional government. You seem to think rebelling against that constitutional government is allowed under the Second Amendment.

And don't compare our constitution, with an independent judicary, with dictatorships like North Korea. Do are also believe they are truly a "people's republic"?


Not trying to butt into a nice discussion with Henry & Dangerous...

Do we have a constitutional government? With warrantless wiretaps, "free speech zones," permits required to protest, power to seize property from one owner just to hand it to another, power to indefinitely detain Americans, power to compel individuals to buy products from private companies, etc, etc. (not even mentioning the unconstitutional attempt to ban rifles) How does our government match our constitution? It looks to have more in conflict with than in common with the constitution. It's only when we pile on layers and layers of judicial opinions that we can squint and say it kind of looks a little bit like rule of law in a way.

And that "independent" judiciary... the Supreme Court has declared its dependence on Congress ("great deference") in many matters and areas. Is our judiciary really a guarantee of constitutionality anymore?

I do not suppose any "right" to overthrow a constitutional government. But an unconstitutional one, that right is irrevocable (see declaration of independence) and beyond question. Then we get back to that question of the consent of the governed. I don't see that consent going away anytime soon, however vehemently we disagree on this or that policy matter these days.

But all this is a straw man, anyway. The question for an "assault weapon" ban is, is it narrowly tailored to serve a legitimate public interest? Evidence says no. There is no evidence that such a law would change crime or homicides in any measurable way. The NIJ said as much in evaluating the President's gun control proposals.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby HawkHead » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
The U.S. Senate managed to pass just two measures Thursday in the failing effort to craft legislation addressing gun violence, both of which are backed by many gun advocates.

One was a provision to bar state and local governments from releasing information about gun ownership, sponsored by Sen. John Barrasso (R-Wyo.). It would penalize states and localities that reveal data on licenses, permits and locations of gun owners by docking 5 percent of the locality's community policing funding.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/1 ... 10512.html

Well thank fucking God they passed this. I was so worried that we might be able to see data on the number of gun permits. It's not as though I can find out how many people have driver's licenses or how many people have fishing licenses.

I'm sure people can feel a whole lot safer. I know I do.


The punishment to communities that reveal gun licenses and permits is to remove police funding.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:16 pm

The question for an "assault weapon" ban is, is it narrowly tailored to serve a legitimate public interest?


I think it's time to turn the question around and ask what legitimate public interest is served by anonymously stockpiling assault weapons.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Detritus » Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:59 pm

snoqueen wrote:
The question for an "assault weapon" ban is, is it narrowly tailored to serve a legitimate public interest?


I think it's time to turn the question around and ask what legitimate public interest is served by anonymously stockpiling assault weapons.

No, we can't ask that question. D-Man has already convincingly demonstrated that it's circular.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Leroy Gates » Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:21 am

Wonder how many Liberals are waking up in Watertown, Mass. this morning wishing they had a gun?
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:48 am

I wonder if The officer killed wished they had a gun.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby david cohen » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:29 am

Lots of folks who aren't right wing red necks own guns- the normal kind, like a 12 gauge or a revolver. Even in Massachusetts.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:13 am

Leroy Gates wrote:Wonder how many Liberals are waking up in Watertown, Mass. this morning wishing they had a gun?


Ding. Ding. Ding.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:25 am

Wonder how many Liberals are waking up in Watertown, Mass. this morning wishing they had a gun?


Wonder how many gun dealers are waking up hoping they didn't sell these guys an AR-15.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby wack wack » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:26 am

Leroy Gates wrote:Wonder how many Liberals are waking up in Watertown, Mass. this morning wishing they had a gun?


Probably a lot less than the number of conservatives waking up in absolute disbelief that the terrorists weren't "dark-skinned."
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Re: The gun thread

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:27 am

Ned Flanders wrote:
Leroy Gates wrote:Wonder how many Liberals are waking up in Watertown, Mass. this morning wishing they had a gun?


Ding. Ding. Ding.


Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

Stebben84 wrote:I wonder if The officer killed wished they had a gun.

Bump.

Sure, I guess your average homeowner with a gun can stop this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMviuMd8sXc
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Re: The gun thread

Postby snoqueen » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:26 am

Image

Anybody who posted stuff on this forum talking about how it was important to keep guns around in case the government gets out of hand ought to apologize and take it down. It is absolutely obscene for anybody to believe it might be a good idea to shoot at these courageous people.

Nor is it a good idea to try and provide them with unsolicited help.

If that kind of gun use is your intent, the nation needs laws that keep you from owning anything bigger than a pea shooter. You are the worst possible argument for your own beliefs.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby BSH » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:29 pm

snoqueen wrote:I think it's time to turn the question around and ask what legitimate public interest is served by anonymously stockpiling assault weapons.


So everything should be banned unless people can show they justifiably need it? Government should decide who gets to own what, and why?

That's not how civil society works in a free country. Government bears the responsibility and burden of showing that its actions serve a public interest. In the case of scary-looking rifles, that burden has very clearly not been met.
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Re: The gun thread

Postby HawkHead » Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:37 pm

Who knew but our Governor is a federalist.

Gov. Walker said Wisconsin will pursue no new gun laws after the Conn. shooting stating that the federal government should be responsible for gun laws and not the states.
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