MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters 
Wednesday, July 23, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 61.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Badgers, Packers, Mallards. Paddling, running, golfing. And bikes!

Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Sat May 04, 2013 11:02 am

Yeah, it has been fascinating to watch this unfold online. There are a number of different factions:

- Those that (apparently accurately) believe that Child Welfare Services (or whatever it is called) is far more culpable in this mess, and are angry that nobody will be called on the carpet there. They also are nervous that the remaining criminal cases will be settled by plea bargain, which would limit the number of facts that come to light. They also dispute the findings of the Freeh report, which had a lot of leaps of logic, and which their board apparently accepted blindly, in most cases without reading it.

- The Paterno fans. Ironically, he probably lost the least in terms of monetary / life damages, but lost the most from an image point of view. I get their point - he really does not appear (from evidence so far) to be in the top 5 people that messed up here. However, those same people often call for the heads of absolutely everyone else involved, including their Board of Trustees. That makes them turn from reasonable to just silly.

- Those that mostly care about football. They don't believe that a criminal matter should have resulted in NCAA sanctions. There is a certain truth to this; however, these fans still seem to take glee in the misfortune of other schools when they have things like the Shoe Box incident occur.


The reality of the situation?
- Paterno is likely shouldering too much blame.
- Many others shoulder blame, but will not see negative effects.
- It isn't going to matter to the NCAA (or public opinion) if the AD screwed up instead of the football coach.
- Pennsylvania politics is a mess.
- This situation was made worse by the insular nature of sports teams, academia, and small towns.
- It seems like he biggest loss for Penn State fans is not the competitive or financial one, it is the ability to feel superior as compared to other fan bases.
Igor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:48 pm

Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Sat May 04, 2013 4:39 pm

Igor wrote: They also dispute the findings of the Freeh report, which had a lot of leaps of logic, and which their board apparently accepted blindly, in most cases without reading it ... I get their point - he really does not appear (from evidence so far) to be in the top 5 people that messed up here. .....The reality of the situation?
- Paterno is likely shouldering too much blame ...


From where i'm sitting, your "reality" is that of a biased apologist for Paterno. Your undercutting of the legitimacy of the Freeh Report is a tell .

Paterno was the cover-upper-in-chief going way back. He got off far too easily from the sports media.

I don't want to reargue the case, but I dispute that you are an objective, above-the-fray, fair referee of various positions. I guess we all think our own positions are reasonable, "fair and balanced" as FOX would say.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6171
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Sat May 04, 2013 7:35 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Igor wrote: They also dispute the findings of the Freeh report, which had a lot of leaps of logic, and which their board apparently accepted blindly, in most cases without reading it ... I get their point - he really does not appear (from evidence so far) to be in the top 5 people that messed up here. .....The reality of the situation?
- Paterno is likely shouldering too much blame ...


From where i'm sitting, your "reality" is that of a biased apologist for Paterno. Your undercutting of the legitimacy of the Freeh Report is a tell .

Paterno was the cover-upper-in-chief going way back. He got off far too easily from the sports media.

I don't want to reargue the case, but I dispute that you are an objective, above-the-fray, fair referee of various positions. I guess we all think our own positions are reasonable, "fair and balanced" as FOX would say.


My friends would get a chuckle out of that. Nothing brings me more glee than to see Penn State lose, frankly. I did hope that Paterno would keep coaching, only because it would probably mean that the Badgers would likely have success against them. The whole coaching record thing also was a joke, since he was barely coaching.

The grad assistant saw something, which depending on the version of the story, was somewhere between rape and very inappropriate horseplay. (he has been inconsistent in his story) He went home and told his dad and his fathers friend, who was a doctor. They told him to report it to Paterno. Paterno said to talk to the head of campus police and the AD. At that point, a bunch of stuff happened. There were a few e-mails that hinted at stuff, but (not surprisingly) most of the discussions were undocumented.

It may be your opinion that Paterno led a coverup. It may even be accurate. But the evidence is spotty, since if there was an organized cover up, only an idiot would send e-mails about it, and frankly, Paterno probably didn't do much e-mailing anyway. Some of the people involved are likely criminally liable. Others were just incompetent or showed incredibly poor judgement. I'm not positive which Paterno was - I think that we will know more in 2 years after trials end and people write the inevitable books.
Igor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:48 pm

Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Sat May 04, 2013 10:19 pm

I don't expect to learn spit from the trials.

The trail is ice cold, we're talking about largely undocumented conversations going back 15 years, probably longer.

Sandusky's sudden retirement from football back in the late 1990's tells you all you need to know. Did he want to spend more time with his family? Sandusky lived for Penn State Football, he was obviously forced out in a cover-up.

JoePA knew Sandusky had problems going way back. He was the only one positioned to deal with it, and he failed tragically. Whatever the failings of other people, JoePa is 100% villain.

You can "wait for more evidence" until the end of time, the picture is never going to get any clearer. If you want to give JoePa the benefit of the doubt, that's your judgement.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6171
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Igor » Sun May 05, 2013 1:00 am

Huckleby wrote:I don't expect to learn spit from the trials.

The trail is ice cold, we're talking about largely undocumented conversations going back 15 years, probably longer.


True, although I don't think that Freeh got to interview anyone who was being prosecuted. They probably won't remember everything, and they will probably lie. But some useful info might come out.

Huckleby wrote:Sandusky's sudden retirement from football back in the late 1990's tells you all you need to know. Did he want to spend more time with his family? Sandusky lived for Penn State Football, he was obviously forced out in a cover-up.


Supposedly he was spending too much time with the charity, so Paterno made him choose. Agreed that it sounds suspicious. However, I'm not sure why you would force someone out in a cover up, but then give him an office in the building, access to tickets for games, and let him take kids along on bowl trips.

Frankly nothing that came out would surprise me in that whole sordid mess anymore.
Igor
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:48 pm

Previous

Return to Sports, Recreation & Biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar