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Guest Workers

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Guest Workers

Postby rabble » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:37 pm

In another thread I wondered if Bludgie knew how to read. Given that he just spent one paragraph asking questions that were answered in Huck's next two sentences, now I'm thinking it's some form of dyslexia. He managed to read and grasp the first sentence but got competently lost at the second and third.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:56 pm

rabble wrote:In another thread I wondered if Bludgie knew how to read. Given that he just spent one paragraph asking questions that were answered in Huck's next two sentences, now I'm thinking it's some form of dyslexia. He managed to read and grasp the first sentence but got competently lost at the second and third.


Idiot Rabble, just because he said something doesn't mean it's indisputably verified, reliable, or the best approach - it isn't. Never mind what else can be said about your seeming willingness to steer your way through life, apparently just picking a side and from that moment on whatever you hear in it's favor, you unquestioningly believe. I guess if I ever get the hankering to start a cult, I'll know who to come to.

Even if I was on Huckleby's side, I would want at least the facade of justification for an argument. Let's leave it at that.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:20 pm

Bludgeon wrote:have people not been immigrating here from other countries and becoming citizens here for generations, without national ID cards? They still get drivers licenses, social security cards, ID.

First of all, for generations there were very low barriers to immigration. You just came here, and if you didn't have any communicable diseases, they let you stay and become a citizen. I think immigration barriers started in the 1920's or something, and even then they weren't much enforced.

Also, until about 5 or 10 years ago, not sure when the change in attitude happened, nobody seemed to care much about illegal immigration. Drivers licenses and Social Security cards are easy as pie to forge or transfer. But so what, the immigrants are good for business.

So if you are happy with the old ways, fine, I can live with the old ways.

But if we are going to have an enforceable immigration policy, which I thought the conservatives were all revved-up for, then we need a system to verify that drivers license and social security card. The system is E-verify. E-verify is not a national ID card, but it effectively will evolve to being a "cyber national ID card" as the bugs are worked out. E-verify connects various state and federal databases.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:45 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:have people not been immigrating here from other countries and becoming citizens here for generations, without national ID cards? They still get drivers licenses, social security cards, ID.

First of all, for generations there were very low barriers to immigration. You just came here, and if you didn't have any communicable diseases, they let you stay and become a citizen. I think immigration barriers started in the 1920's or something, and even then they weren't much enforced.

Also, until about 5 or 10 years ago, not sure when the change in attitude happened, nobody seemed to care much about illegal immigration. Drivers licenses and Social Security cards are easy as pie to forge or transfer. But so what, the immigrants are good for business.

That's not an accurate description of "the old ways". Dispense with the archaic and just stick to the last fifty years or so. Immigrate here, become a citizen, get a drivers license or ID card.

Look you can go ahead and forge an ID "easy as pie" but when the cop pulls you over and enters the drivers license number into the computer, the jig is up. Plus, they're not easy to forge, with this holographic printing technology. And if you give a cop a fake ID and don't have an identity, the problem is not that you haven't got a national ID card, it's that you forged an ID card and aren't here legally.

Why does everything have to be this blind rush, "Great Leap Forward?" Never mind the risks, nothing to worry about, this is all going to turn out great. After all it's not like we're being represented by a corrupt political class; it's not like our elected leaders have no integrity whatsoever; its not like all hope for any sensible policy on immigration is beyond lost because the issue is pretty much ruined by politics. Let's just go ahead and deem, that this is all going to work out for the best. National ID cards too - why even question it? There's nothing to worry about. We never had National ID cards before, but for some reason it's really important that we have them now, so we should just go ahead with it.

Is that the "new way"?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:14 pm

Bludgeon wrote: Look you can go ahead and forge an ID "easy as pie" but when the cop pulls you over and enters the drivers license number into the computer, the jig is up. Plus, they're not easy to forge, with this holographic printing technology. And if you give a cop a fake ID and don't have an identity, the problem is not that you haven't got a national ID card, it's that you forged an ID card and aren't here legally.


I do not know how fake ID works, but sophisticated criminal networks produce it, it is not a matter of printing licenses and social security cards with phony numbers. The drivers licenses are obtained under false pretenses. A hundred people might share the same SSN, which might appear valid on a search.

E-verify is the essential core of the Republican strategy for immigration enforcement. If you think the E-verify stuff is extraneous, then you need to educate yourself on basic facts.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby rabble » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:50 pm

Bludgeon wrote: Never mind what else can be said about your seeming willingness to steer your way through life, apparently just picking a side and from that moment on whatever you hear in it's favor, you unquestioningly believe. I guess if I ever get the hankering to start a cult, I'll know who to come to.

Damn, you're right. I need to broaden my views. Maybe you could give me lessons on how to be open minded and question my own beliefs. Because, you know, your views are all over the spectrum.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:53 pm

Huckleby wrote:E-verify is the essential core of the Republican strategy for immigration enforcement.


It's a bad Republican idea, like armed police officers in schools.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:57 pm

The backbone of E-verify is for Homeland Security to maintain a biometrics database. I think that will just be a photo. Maybe DNA or fingerprints for people who are arrested?

I am fine with DNA for all.

The far right wants no part of E-verify.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/14/e-ver ... p-society/
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:01 pm

Bludgeon wrote:It's a bad Republican idea, like armed police officers in schools.


OK. Well, forget about doing anything significant about illegal immigration. I can live with that.

Putting up a big-ole fence along the border is not going to do very much, even if it feels so good.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:16 pm

Image

I've run across a story that has blown my mind. Border enforcement got cranked-up in 1986, and contrary to right-wing rhetoric, has demonstrably only increased since, especially during the Obama years.

It seems that more border enforcement has only lead to more undocumented people in the country because it becomes too difficult, risky and permanent for immigrants to return to their home country. Ain't that a kick in the head!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... ying-eyes/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-08-0 ... dumb-.html

Counter argument:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/35 ... -krikorian
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