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DOMA. Done.

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DOMA. Done.

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:06 am

Can't believe it was even 5-4. Waiting on word from prop 8. Social media kicking traditional media's ass so far.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:12 am

A broud ruling, based on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. I expect a legal challenge in federal court over Wisconsin's prohibition of gay marriage.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:18 am

Henry Vilas wrote:A broud ruling, based on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment. I expect a legal challenge in federal court over Wisconsin's prohibition of gay marriage.


I think the ruling on Prop 8 will be a stronger case to use. Should hear about that one any minute.

The SCOTUS sure is schizo sometimes with their rulings.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:29 am

The USSC said no legal standing for plaintiff in the Prop 8 appeal.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:25 am

Mainstream media weighs in.

They punted on Prop 8:
In a second decision, the court declined to say whether there is a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. Instead, the justices said that a case concerning California’s ban on same-sex marriage, Proposition 8, was not properly before them. Because officials in California had declined to appeal a trial court’s decision against them and because the proponents of Proposition 8 were not entitled to step into the state’s shoes to appeal the decision, the court said, it was powerless to issue a decision.

The ruling leaves in place laws banning same-sex marriage around the nation. Its consequences for California were not immediately clear, but many legal analysts say that same-sex marriages are likely to resume there in a matter of weeks.

The decision on the federal law was 5 to 4, with Justice Anthony M. Kennedy writing the majority opinion, which the four liberal-leaning justices joined.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/us/po ... .html?_r=0
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:43 am

I don't think it's fair to say "punted." I think they had a legitimate reason to dismiss the case.

I did find the majority make up interesting. Robert, Scalia, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagen. What an unlikely group. It's nice to see some votes aren't always drawn along ideological lines.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:36 am

Pretty soon people are going to be marrying doggies and wicker furniture.

Dark day for America.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby david cohen » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:41 am

ummmm...yeah....right Bubba!
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:45 am

I just proposed to my cat. Hopefully she's ok to an open relationship with my table
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:02 pm

Stebben84 wrote:I don't think it's fair to say "punted." I think they had a legitimate reason to dismiss the case.

I did find the majority make up interesting. Robert, Scalia, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagen. What an unlikely group. It's nice to see some votes aren't always drawn along ideological lines.


I agree with you there.

California is free to have gay marriages (Gov. Brown just said they should go ahead) but for Wisconsin and other states with restrictive laws or even, in our case, amendments, nothing changed.

While I see the sense in the SC's technical argument, many people including me hoped they were willing to go further. (Remember, they can pretty much do whatever they want, and sometimes they do.)

What's done is done, and I can't complain about the overall results.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:17 pm

If DOMA violated the "equal protection of the laws" clause in the 14th Amendment, then won't state laws or their constitutions that bar gay marriage also violate that clause, as it applies to state laws not just federal legislation?

...nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:38 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:If DOMA violated the "equal protection of the laws" clause in the 14th Amendment, then won't state laws or their constitutions that bar gay marriage also violate that clause, as it applies to state laws not just federal legislation?


You would think so

The theory is that the USSC tries to make as narrow a ruling as possible. Since they could rule on the validity of the appeal, they could ignore (or punt) on the actual case. It has the same effect for California, but doesn't set a nation wide precedent on state gay marriage laws. After reading Kennedy's dissent, I'm more inclined to think they decided to punt and looked for anyway they could rationalize it.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:16 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I'm more inclined to think they decided to punt and looked for anyway they could rationalize it.


I don't think they punted on anything. The case was about a woman receiving federal benefits from her same sex spouse. DOMA prevented this and allowed states to not recognize other states gay marriages.

I believe the USSC does have to narrowly look at the cases they are working on. This was never a case of legalizing gay marriage across the board, but it is a great step in the right direction.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:04 pm

I don't think they punted on DOMA, I think they made one decision on DOMA based on the 14th, but didn't follow that to the logical conclusion on Prop 8. Rather then uphold the appeals court decision that Prop 8 was unconstitutional (which would have had an effect on similar laws in other states), they chose to lock onto a technical rule of questionable merit.

Kennedy's dissent raises a good point, that California law (and the California SC) allows other interested parties to stand in for the state in the event the state does not wish to represent itself. Given that, the USSC could have ruled on the merit of the case. I don't think the court wanted to do that yet, and thus punted. It's not a bad thing. The court is probably more divided on this then the country is.

In any event the DOMA decision is a huge win for US citizens and for states rights.
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Re: DOMA. Done.

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:54 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: In any event the DOMA decision is a huge win for US citizens and for states rights.


A temporary stay of execution for states rights, not a huge win. Some day soon, the country will have 35 states with legal gay marriage, 15 southern states banning gay marriage, and a liberal majority on the SC. There will be many more gay marriage cases brought to the SC. There is no way that the southern bible belt is going to be able to deny gay marriage indefinitely, even if the SC composition stayed as it is today.

The big win I see is for the Democratic Party. I guarantee you that Republican strategists and pols were working their prayer beads, hoping the court would declare gay marriage the law of the land.

Today;s outcome is the worst case scenario politically for Republicans. Acceptance of gay marriage will undoubtedly be enhanced by the rulings, and Republicans are left defending an unpopular position in the purple states.

Dana Perino on Fox said she thinks the ruling means "neither side will be able to use the gay rights issue going forward." Hah! You wish, baby, you wish. The Republicans had their fun in the 2000's, now it's their turn to squirm and evolve at their peril.
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