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The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Sandi » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:51 pm

Huckleby wrote:If Zimmerman was taking a "beating" he would have looked a lot worse.


Pure speculation, you have have no idea.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:18 pm

By that standard, any comment about the Zimmerman case is illegitimate.

(Reminds me of Packer fans who say "the coach knows more than you do" in football forums. Why are we here if not to play armchair attorneys and coaches?)
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Rich Schultz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:54 pm

Image
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:37 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
Dangerousman wrote:
I never argued that, did I?

Zimmerman didn't shoot someone engaging in a break-in or vandalizing did he? He shot someone who was on top of him and beating him.


He shot an unarmed teenager whom he was stalking for no valid reason.


You mean, other than the suspicious behavior he was describing to the dispatcher...
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:38 pm

That map was put together by a web site that traffics in racial and ethnic hatred. Enjoy: http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/

The accuracy of the portrayal of events is suspect, and obviously it is meant to ground-and-pound a point of view, to use their inflamatory language.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:41 pm

Dangerousman wrote: You mean, other than the suspicious behavior he was describing to the dispatcher...


Give me a break. Suspicious behavior?

This is all about racism. Not necessarily on Zimmerman's part, but on how people are viewing events. If Zimmerman had tracked-and-shot a freckle-faced teenage Opie Taylor, the white world would not be rising to his defense.

Zimmerman's behavior was indefensible. That's not to say he is convictable.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:35 pm

Huckleby wrote:This is all about racism. Not necessarily on Zimmerman's part, but on how people are viewing events.


I agree with what you're saying in general, but I don't see how the kind of baseless suspicion shown by Zimmerman can be called anything other than racism.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Dangerousman » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:51 pm

HawkHead wrote:
snoqueen wrote:I'm not even sure the cops weren't complicit in crafting GZ's defense. They could easily have helped with the little head scratches, for instance. Linked somewhere upthread is the video of the cops bringing GZ to the police station. It's a remarkably respectful and calm little vignette where everybody's walking in together, not the picture you'd expect if the cops were hauling in someone they regarded as a murder suspect.


That is an interesting point to make. I am not ready to go that far.


Well before you even think about going that far, the first person to approach George Zimmerman, Jonathan Manalo, testified that he took pictures of the injuries on the back of Zimmerman's head before the police arrived. Fast forward to the 11:54 mark here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFBizIYOBDQ

Sorry to rain on your conspiracy theory parade, Sno.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:08 pm

Ninja wrote:
Huckleby wrote:This is all about racism. Not necessarily on Zimmerman's part, but on how people are viewing events.
I agree with what you're saying in general, but I don't see how the kind of baseless suspicion shown by Zimmerman can be called anything other than racism.


This is going to sound like double-talk, but I find it very hard to call any individual racist, even though I have no trouble saying that racism is often behind a given opinion.

I don't know what is going on inside George Zimmerman's head and heart, there are many possible explanations for his behavior.

In my arguments with conservatives online, especially about immigration, I often make the point that ethnicity plays a strong role in resentment against immigrants. The response, "You are calling me a racist!" No, I truly am not. Generalizations can't be applied to any particular person.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:25 pm

Dangerousman wrote:Sorry to rain on your conspiracy theory parade, Sno.


You have a tendency to focus on a tree because you don't like the looks of the forest as a whole. I don't think Mr. Zimmerman needed any assistance in making his wounds look gory, but I don't think there's any question that the cops were deferential to him, which was the overall point to that post.

And that may have occurred because cops sometimes do take it easy on vigilantes (under certain narrow circumstances), or because they were duped by Zimmerman's story, or because they were fearful of violating the seriously troubling and ambiguous commands of Florida's section 776.032, which grants a weird immunity from "prosecution" if there's a legit self-defense claim. Does prosecution include even arrest? Maybe. And if so, has Florida taken something that's always been a jury question and turned it into a snap judgment by police officers on a crime scene? Maybe. Does that seem wise? Probably not.

Regardless, it's a dumb, poorly written law, so I'm willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt that it was the source of the restraint. But even without it I wouldn't be suprised if they would have been pretty gentle with Mr. Zimmerman. There are cops who are inclined to assume the worst about others based on superficial qualities, just like I think Mr. Zimmerman did.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Ninja » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:38 pm

Huckleby wrote:This is going to sound like double-talk, but I find it very hard to call any individual racist, even though I have no trouble saying that racism is often behind a given opinion.


I don't suffer from that affliction. The racism angle is really irrelevant to this case though. I don't think it should be ignored in the grand scheme of things, but there's no bias motivated sentence enhancement at play in the criminal trial, so it really doesn't matter how or why Mr. Zimmerman chose his quarry.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby Rich Schultz » Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:08 am

Huckleby wrote:
Dangerousman wrote: You mean, other than the suspicious behavior he was describing to the dispatcher...


Give me a break. Suspicious behavior?


Huckleby wrote:
Ninja wrote:
Huckleby wrote:This is all about racism. Not necessarily on Zimmerman's part, but on how people are viewing events.
"baseless suspicion shown by Zimmerman".



The guy that was there told the dispatcher he observed suspicious behavior and asked for the police to be sent. Huckleby and Ninja who were not there are sure that any suspicion was baseless. What makes you so sure from your nonvantage point that the same youth, who was suspended from school for among other things possessing jewelry he claimed he was holding for a friend he could not identify and a large screwdriver, was not acting suspicious? Is it not at least in the realm of possibility that Trayvon Martin might indeed have been acting suspicious? Wouldn't that be the most likely reason Zimmerman notified the police?

Huckleby, the map shows the routes that have been testified to in court, you don't have to agree with the conclusion in number 6, (but I bet the jury does). Remember, "Dee Dee" testified under oath that Trayvon was in his father's girlfriends backyard. If you don't believe that part of her testimony why do you believe the rest? Or was Trayvon lying to her about his location and if he was why should we believe the rest of his account as relayed by her?
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:57 am

So if Zimmerman gets off does he go looking for the "real killers" like OJ? Oh wait he IS the real killer. If he gets caught does that mean in Florida it's legal to bait someone into attacking you then murder them? Or are just any fist fights that end in gun fire considered acceptable? That's going to hurt the tourism industry I would think.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby SombreroFallout » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:07 am

Sandi wrote:
snoqueen wrote:The defense is heard when the prosecution is done laying out its case. Isn't that how it usually works?

At one point, they said they thought the case might go to the jury by the end of this week. Not sure if they're still on that timeline or not.


Defense will probably rest tomorrow.

Not soon enough: because Mr. Martin rests in peace permanently.
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Re: The Trayvon Martin & George Zimmerman Story

Postby wack wack » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:12 am

Sandi wrote:
Huckleby wrote:If Zimmerman was taking a "beating" he would have looked a lot worse.


Pure speculation, you have have no idea.


No, Huckleby is echoing the educated, experienced opinion of a medical examiner.
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