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Hiroshima Day

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Hiroshima Day

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:25 am

67 years ago today we made the first step in ending the war with Japan. We dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

It didn't work (neither had the Tokyo Bombing) and it took a second bomb a few days later on Nagasaki to bring a surrender.

Most people do not realize how strong Japan still was in August 1945. We had planned an invasion and expected hundreds of thousands of American military casualties. Soldiers wounded in Afghanistan today are still getting their Purple Heart medals from the inventory built up in preparation for the invasion.

Japanese casualties were expected to exceed a million, most of them dead.

It would have been horrific for both sides.

Absent the atom bomb the war would probably have gone on until 1947 or so.

William Manchester, in his war memoirs "Goodbye Darkness" had fought his way as a grunt through several island campaigns including Okinawa where he was on August 6, 1945.

He and all his fellow troops knew that they were going to invade Japan, they knew that they probably would not survive. His reaction was "Thank God for the Atom Bomb"

Paul Fussell, who had fought his way through Europe in the Army was badly injured but in August was still considered fit for duty. He fully expected to die in Japan in the coming months.

Back in the 90's he wrote a book of essays, one of which was titled "Thank God for the atom bomb", also the title of the book.

It is online here http://croker.harpethhall.org/Must%20Kn ... ussell.pdf

Everyone should read it from time to time.

While about it, Fussell's books are pretty good too. One of my favorites is his book on language in wartime.

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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:31 am

Here is Manchester:

"After Biak the enemy withdrew to deep caverns. Rooting them out became a bloody business which reached its ultimate horrors in the last months of the war. You think of the lives which would have been lost in an invasion of Japan’s home islands—a staggering number of Americans but millions more of Japanese—and you thank God for the atomic bomb."


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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby pjbogart » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:47 pm

Fortunately, the world is mostly populated by sensitive individuals who don't use anniversaries of tragedies to crow about how wonderful the death and destruction was (in the abstract).

I'm trying to understand why you used this opportunity to pick at scabs, Mr. Henry, but all I can come up with is that you're a real asshole. Seriously. What's your point? Do you take pleasure in the ACTUAL death of 200,000 people because it MIGHT have prevented even more deaths? And you choose to do so while people are paying respect to the dead? Really?

Fred Phelps would be proud of you if you somehow tied it to homosexuality.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Mad Howler » Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:20 am

I think JFH is striking back at chatter around the notion that suggests that the US of A committed the "biggest" act of terror with these actions in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I would provide a link, but for some reason I am having trouble 'searching' for what I specifically came across today. This searching is probably a bad idea, although I did find that the above notion is not new.
I find it interesting that the last declared war by the US of A was, I think, prior to this action.

So-
JFH do you just do this for fun?
How do your words here demonstrate your fundamental care for our American experience?
At the end of the day if you had to answer the question of why, would you say in all candor:
It is part of how I make my living.

?
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby bdog » Wed Aug 07, 2013 6:09 am

Image
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:22 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:67 years ago today we made the first step in ending the war with Japan. We dropped the bomb on Hiroshima.

It was 68 years ago, but who's counting?
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:42 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Absent the atom bomb the war would probably have gone on until 1947 or so.


Except for the fact that the Soviet Union launched an attack on Japanese forces as well. Had we not dropped the bombs, this could have likely ended the war. But alas, we'll never know cause we killed those motherfuckers. Ya! 'Merica.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:46 am

Stebben84 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Absent the atom bomb the war would probably have gone on until 1947 or so.


Except for the fact that the Soviet Union launched an attack on Japanese forces as well. Had we not dropped the bombs, this could have likely ended the war. But alas, we'll never know cause we killed those motherfuckers. Ya! 'Merica.

Some historians say that Truman dropped the bombs on Japan as a warning to Stalin.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:04 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Some historians say that Truman dropped the bombs on Japan as a warning to Stalin.


If that's the case, it's pretty sickening that we would kill a couple hundred thousand people in one country as a warning to another.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:12 am

Stebben84 wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Some historians say that Truman dropped the bombs on Japan as a warning to Stalin.


If that's the case, it's pretty sickening that we would kill a couple hundred thousand people in one country as a warning to another.

It was all in the name of stopping international communism. So were the Korean and Vietnam Wars.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:13 am

Stebben84 wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Some historians say that Truman dropped the bombs on Japan as a warning to Stalin.


If that's the case, it's pretty sickening that we would kill a couple hundred thousand people in one country as a warning to another.

Sacrifice 240,000 to save the 50,000,000 that died in alternate 1961's WWIII?

In any argument there's always a far worse hypothetical.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Detritus » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:18 am

Stebben84 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Absent the atom bomb the war would probably have gone on until 1947 or so.


Except for the fact that the Soviet Union launched an attack on Japanese forces as well. Had we not dropped the bombs, this could have likely ended the war. But alas, we'll never know cause we killed those motherfuckers. Ya! 'Merica.

Just for the record, the Soviets didn't attack Japanese possessions in China until Aug 8, after the bomb was dropped on Hiroshima (but before the second one was dropped on Nagasaki). Having survived the war in Europe with the greatest losses of any country, the Soviets were not exactly champing at the bit to attack Japan unless they knew their effort would be minimal.

Which is not to say that the atom bombs were necessary to end the war.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:29 am

Detritus wrote:Having survived the war in Europe with the greatest losses of any country, the Soviets were not exactly champing at the bit to attack Japan unless they knew their effort would be minimal.


Although the commencement of the invasion fell between the atomic bombings of Hiroshima, on August 6, and Nagasaki, on August 9, the timing of the invasion had been planned well in advance and was determined by the timing of the agreements at Tehran and Yalta, the long term buildup of Soviet forces in the Far East since Tehran, and the date of the German surrender; on August 3, Marshal Vasilevsky reported to Stalin that, if necessary, he could attack on the morning of August 5.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_inv ... _Manchuria

I know, I know, it's Wikipedia but at least they cite their sources.

Maybe JH can cite some liberal(I'll appease his libertarian gods) source to debunk this.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby The One » Thu Aug 08, 2013 2:47 pm

If any of you have Netflix, watch the movie, "Hiroshima" produced by the BBC. Very informative and very balanced.
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Re: Hiroshima Day

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:10 pm

Tokyo and Nagasaki 1945

Hard to see much to choose between a night of conventional bombing and an atomic bomb.

Image

Image

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