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I'll continue to risk arrest

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I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby martimar123 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:37 pm

I am one of the five Raging Grannies arrested, so far, at the Solidarity Sing Along. I will continue to risk arrest because I am a grandmother and I believe the Sing is an important active voice of dissent against Walker's scorched earth governance and sale of our state. One day my grandchildren may ask me what I was doing while their state was being dismantled and I want to be able to tell them that I did the best I could to express my outrage and disappointment. My grandchildren and I will never be invited to the governor's office, his mansion, or his numerous in and out-of-state posh dinners. Our voices aren't backed by obscene amounts of money or promises for current and future power. Getting handcuffed, escorted to the basement of the Capitol, and appearing in court are frightening to me but I am more frightened about the future of my 6th generation grandchildren in a state which is unrecognizable to me. I will continue to raise my voice, regardless of the consequences, and urge other WI parents and grandparents to do the same.
Marie Martini
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:51 am

Kudos!
:)
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Jattpw » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:23 pm

I have to ask:

How would doing all the same activities but having a permit change what you are doing?

I understand you are outraged. I understand you want to leave a legacy of your effort. I get it. I'm no fan of Walker.

But I have to wonder, what is the extra benefit of doing all of this without a permit? Enough people have been arrested to provide for a challenge to the State regulations so that can't be it. The permit is free and easily attainable so that can't be it.

Is it about the publicity? Is it personal in that you will not follow administrative code because it was drawn up by Walker? These seem like plausible reasons. If not these reasons than why?

Do you support other illegal activities if someone feels the law is unconstitutional or unfair?

Thank you for posting. I really would like hear what you have to say on this.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby pjbogart » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:30 pm

I think the "just get a permit" critique is getting awfully stale. You already know the reason, you apparently just don't agree with it.

And insinuating that refusing to get a permit to exercise your right to free speech is somehow similar to ignoring all laws that you don't agree with is also pretty tiresome. There's a huge difference between sitting in the rotunda and singing vs. sitting in the rotunda shooting heroin. Or do you think those are similar scenarios?
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:19 pm

Yeah. How many times does one have to say "Because free speech doesn't require a permit AND because the state has written a 'pay for damages' clause into the permit which allows them to determine the 'damages' and the costs with no appeal procedure."

And yet, they still ask. The holier than thou attitude they project when they do it seems to be pretty consistent across the board. As does their unfamiliarity with the concept of civil disobedience. Odd, given all the recent publicity for the "I have a dream" speech.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Jattpw » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:34 pm

I hadn't heard the damages response previously. I can see how that would give someone pause before getting a permit for space when they cannot fully control access. That makes sense.

The free speech should not require a permit I get. I see why forcing the issue through the court system matters. I just don't see why one more day of tickets matters.

I would not equate this form of protest with shooting up heroin. That isn't a constitutional issue. I could see how someone could equate it with the folks that walked into Culvers with pistols in their belts. That was also a protest movement to force a constitutional issue.

I just wonder from a singer's perspective, why go for one more day of getting a ticket? Why does she feel this adds value to our State or how will it actually make a difference? I am all for protests, I just wonder what will this one happening day after day without a permit accomplish?
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:49 pm

Making sure the issue is kept front and center.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:01 pm

And when the cases are kicked out of court, multiple instances of rights violations by the government of Wisconsin.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby gargantua » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:20 pm

rabble wrote:And when the cases are kicked out of court, multiple instances of rights violations by the government of Wisconsin.

OK, your Honor. Given the precedent of restrictions in capitol buildings in other states, which tend to be more restrictive than the requirements of our fair state, good luck with that.
Who is in the majority in the US Supreme Court? Who is in the majority in the Wisconsin Supreme Court? Want to bet who will prevail in either venue?
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby rabble » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:23 pm

gargantua wrote:
rabble wrote:And when the cases are kicked out of court, multiple instances of rights violations by the government of Wisconsin.

OK, your Honor. Given the precedent of restrictions in capitol buildings in other states, which tend to be more restrictive than the requirements of our fair state, good luck with that.
Who is in the majority in the US Supreme Court? Who is in the majority in the Wisconsin Supreme Court? Want to bet who will prevail in either venue?

I think you abandon hope too easily, but okay. Multiple instances of rights violations that the state gets away with.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:26 pm

Will state courts yield to the federal court, which said groups of twenty or more can be required to have a permit? Or will they craft language that circumvents a federal ruling on the scope of the First Amendment?
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby gargantua » Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:21 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Will state courts yield to the federal court, which said groups of twenty or more can be required to have a permit? Or will they craft language that circumvents a federal ruling on the scope of the First Amendment?

Again, the supremes on both the state and federal level will rule in Walker's favor. They answer to the same owners Walker does.

Don't get me wrong. I am appalled by how Walker's Capitol Police have chosen to handle this situation. Clearly, they don't care how I feel about it and neither do our country's rich owners. I've mocked Stella Guru, but I have come to share the belief that we live in a banana republic....with grand illusions.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby Detritus » Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:49 pm

gargantua wrote:I've mocked Stella Guru, but I have come to share the belief that we live in a banana republic....with inflatable bananas.

I can't believe you missed that opportunity.
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby SidSeven » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:01 am

I thought about being me...but I cannot afford a ticket.
Cop cuffs me walking thru my hometown and I would be
inclined...to rack up a huge amount of lawyer fees...
I'm sorry but I've SEEN the Capitol...
On the other hand...I like to be free...
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Re: I'll continue to risk arrest

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:04 am

It's not just the permitting it's the enforcement. They have no idea what they are doing. They can't enforce a 20 person limit if there's no way to tell who is in a group. It's a giant clusterfuck and I for one am glad to see Walker way overreact and flail.
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