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Mary Burke for Governor

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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:35 am

david cohen wrote:I don't think you can diss Burke for her Harvard MBA or her undergrad degree from Georgetown. Hell, it's pretty classist to insinuate that without her family money, she'd have gone nowhere.


Not sure if this was directed at me or not. If so, I'm by no means dissing her educational accomplishments. My point wasn't that she couldn't have gotten where she was without her family money. It was that given her family background, I'm not overly impressed with those accomplishments. She's managed to get the same level of education as W. Woo hoo.

david cohen wrote:She didn't buy her Board of Ed seat either- she ran against a dude who could barely articulate his positions and had no clue how the school district was run (he was a very nice guy though).

So you are saying she spent over$100K of her own money defeating a guy who didn't have a chance in hell of winning? That's not exactly an indicator of good decision making skills.

david cohen wrote:None of this makes her any more qualified than anyone else, but crap, she isn't some sorority floozie either. Neither Georgetown nor Harvard are a walk in the park academically. And yeah, compared to Deputy Dawg Walker, she's the fucking Wizard of Oz. Then again, so are some of the corpses in the morgue.


So how effective has calling Walker an idiot been so far? You really think bragging about Burke's brains and calling Walker an unducated lout is going to get him out of office?
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:55 am

gozer wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:
rabble wrote:Does it negate her qualifications?

Her business and philanthropic qualifications are not all that impressive to me given her family background. In fact given the behavior of Chris Abele here in Milwaukee (who has a similar background), I'm actually more concerned by them.


please elaborate (about abele)



Chris Abele is the current County Executive in Milwaukee (replaced Walker in 2011). He's the son of John Abele, who co-founded Boston Scientific. As of 2006 John Abele was the 258 richest person in the world with a value of $2.6 Billion. So Chris Abele comes from a somewhat similar family background. Dad made lots of money, kid benefited from it.

Chris spent several years in business before retiring to focus full time on philanthropy. Again I see similarities there.

Why that concerns me is that Chris Abele is has actually managed to make the Milwaukee county government even more dysfunctional than it was under Walker. The man is a raging control freak who doesn't even play well with his own party.

Not saying that Mary Burke is necessarily in the same mold, but it be nice to see her develop a track record and good reputation before giving her a whole state to run.

As we've seen with the senior senator from Wisconsin, a strong business history is no indicator of competence in political office.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:55 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
david cohen wrote:I don't think you can diss Burke for her Harvard MBA or her undergrad degree from Georgetown. Hell, it's pretty classist to insinuate that without her family money, she'd have gone nowhere.


Not sure if this was directed at me or not. If so, I'm by no means dissing her educational accomplishments. My point wasn't that she couldn't have gotten where she was without her family money. It was that given her family background, I'm not overly impressed with those accomplishments. She's managed to get the same level of education as W. Woo hoo.

You mean her and W got the same grades? I could have sworn George the first had to add a new wing someplace just to get W graduated.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:08 pm

rabble wrote:You mean her and W got the same grades? I could have sworn George the first had to add a new wing someplace just to get W graduated.


Not sure why I'm bothering since I know you are not this stupid, but I mean both individuals went to and graduated from prestigious universities for their undergraduate and MBA degrees.

I also remember how effective attacking W's intelligence was at getting Gore and Kerry elected. At some point that "our candidate is smart, your candidate is stupid" campaign tactic is sure to pay off...

Any day now...
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:14 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
rabble wrote:You mean her and W got the same grades? I could have sworn George the first had to add a new wing someplace just to get W graduated.


Not sure why I'm bothering since I know you are not this stupid, but I mean both individuals went to and graduated from prestigious universities for their undergraduate and MBA degrees.

I also remember how effective attacking W's intelligence was at getting Gore and Kerry elected. At some point that "our candidate is smart, your candidate is stupid" campaign tactic is sure to pay off...

Any day now...

Okay, now I know grades don't mean shit. I'm sorry I asked.

And actually, given W's and Palin's grades, and their respective careers now that everyone's calmed down enough to LOOK at what they really did, grades and scholastic achievement might be coming back as a more important point than whether one might want to share a beer with the candidate.

Of course nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the populace. So carry on. I'll leave you alone.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:44 pm

rabble wrote:Okay, now I know grades don't mean shit. I'm sorry I asked.

They do if you are wondering how well someone did in school. They are not necessarily an indicator of later success. Barrett finishing college didn't do him a whole hell of a lot of good beating the drop out.

rabble wrote:And actually, given W's and Palin's grades, and their respective careers now that everyone's calmed down enough to LOOK at what they really did, grades and scholastic achievement might be coming back as a more important point than whether one might want to share a beer with the candidate.

Bush's record at Yale was fairly close to both Gore and Kerry's (all three of whom were average students). I think it's far more important to look at the positions candidates espouse and have a record of supporting or opposing.

rabble wrote:Of course nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the populace.

I don't have an issue with overestimating or underestimating the population's intelligence. It's the campaigning by claiming intellectual superiority that does nothing to actually win votes. If Burke (or whom ever is the eventual Democratic nominee) is smarter than Walker, it will be obvious to the voters (who haven't already made up their minds), and there will be no need to broadcast it. So far the college dropout has managed to make the Wisconsin Democratic party look pretty stupid.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:42 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Bush's record at Yale was fairly close to both Gore and Kerry's

That's why I asked. I knew he wouldn't have been accepted without his family's money but I could have sworn he would have flunked out if his dad hadn't pumped in more money at the last minute.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Nov 05, 2013 1:47 pm

rabble wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Bush's record at Yale was fairly close to both Gore and Kerry's

That's why I asked. I knew he wouldn't have been accepted without his family's money but I could have sworn he would have flunked out if his dad hadn't pumped in more money at the last minute.

Otherwise know at the gentleman's C.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby david cohen » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:08 pm

I think it's entirely germane to contrast Burke's and Vinehout's undergraduate and graduate school success to Walker dropping out of college under dubious circumstances.

I am bothered by the idea that "family money" or "influence" is what makes a person successful, given so many examples to the contrary. Sure, working your ass off gives you the qualifications and a family connection often opens the door, but that is how the world works. Plenty of silver spoons fail to make it in politics, business, medicine, etc...and plenty of bootstrappers are very successful in their endeavors.

If anything, the Burke's of the world manage to keep their lofty goals when faced with the opportunity to do nothing and be very comfortable. That's what impressed me most with her work regarding the AVID program in our schools. She put her own money where her mouth was, something many silver spoons won't do. I am looking forward to hearing Burke and Vinehout debate:)
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby gozer » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:20 pm

david cohen wrote:I think it's entirely germane to contrast Burke's and Vinehout's undergraduate and graduate school success to Walker dropping out of college under dubious circumstances.

I am bothered by the idea that "family money" or "influence" is what makes a person successful, given so many examples to the contrary. Sure, working your ass off gives you the qualifications and a family connection often opens the door, but that is how the world works. Plenty of silver spoons fail to make it in politics, business, medicine, etc...and plenty of bootstrappers are very successful in their endeavors.

If anything, the Burke's of the world manage to keep their lofty goals when faced with the opportunity to do nothing and be very comfortable. That's what impressed me most with her work regarding the AVID program in our schools. She put her own money where her mouth was, something many silver spoons won't do. I am looking forward to hearing Burke and Vinehout debate:)


what kind of dubious circumstances? c-jam related? corkscrew-shaped little animals eating his wiring?
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby snoqueen » Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:34 pm

It's worth noting Herb Kohl was a decent Wisconsin senator for years -- not inspiring, but he usually voted right in the end. He had more money than god, too. Money is neutral as far as qualifications go, to my thinking.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby gargantua » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:47 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: So far the college dropout has managed to make the Wisconsin Democratic party look pretty stupid.

I agree they look pretty stupid, but I wouldn't give Walker much of the credit. They have been and are continuing to do a great job of BEING stupid.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:10 pm

david cohen wrote:I think it's entirely germane to contrast Burke's and Vinehout's undergraduate and graduate school success to Walker dropping out of college under dubious circumstances.

There are absolutely voters who will consider educational history to be an important factor in who they vote for. I would hypothesise that the vast majority of that group vote regularly and aren't even flirting with the idea of voting for Walker.

gozer wrote:what kind of dubious circumstances? c-jam related? corkscrew-shaped little animals eating his wiring?


He left with 96 credits after 4 years (though he has stated he would have needed a full year to finish so he was probably short on his actual major). About the same time he started working full time for the Red Cross. The only scandal for which there are solid facts know, is that as a sophomore he ran for Student President and quite brazenly violated campaign rules with regards to when, where and how you could campaign. Clearly he didn't get booted for that. There were some accusations made during the recall election that implied that he was involved in other issues prior to dropping out, but no actual evidence has come out.

gargantua wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote: So far the college dropout has managed to make the Wisconsin Democratic party look pretty stupid.

I agree they look pretty stupid, but I wouldn't give Walker much of the credit. They have been and are continuing to do a great job of BEING stupid.

At the very least he's made himself a tempting target that has drawn a constant barrage of Democratic party leaders shooting themselves in the foot. Not much effort on his part I'll admit, but he's gotten a lot of milage out of it.
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby gozer » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:58 pm

so my interpretation is that even in the worst case scenario, walker makes burke look like kierkegaard; actually she has been quite on the ball with everything she has done so far, so it is unlikely to be the worst case scenario.

but $100k for a seat on the madison metropolitan school district board of education? i can still remember some uplifting and meaningful sub-$1000 bids for mayor and how i blanched at the news of the first $5000 races for dane county board of supervisors and madison city council . . . just how close did the other side come to matching that $100k?

abele being a control freak was essentially my interpretation of what i have seen; i agree totally. i am not sure exactly where it comes from. the money may or may not be relevant other than in the initial empowerment. he was literally unpposed last time he ran for re-election, no?
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Re: Mary Burke for Governor

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:27 pm

Abele is still in his first term. He defeated his opponent, mostly by painting him as a Walker clone, then started acting like a less agreeable version of Walker. He was the same way with the philanthropic organization he became involved with and eventually took over. I suppose if Burke had the same tendencies it would already be known.

My biggest concern with Burke remains how well she will hold up when the figurative bullets start flying. Nothing in her history makes me confident she will face adversity well. Maybe I'm wrong and she will do fine, but if things get a little rough on the campaign trail she can't suddenly decide to take a snowboarding sabbatical.
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