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Sauce for the goose

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Sauce for the goose

Postby Detritus » Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:03 pm

A satanist group plans to submit a design for a monument it wants to erect on the lawn of the Oklahoma State Capitol.
The proposal from the New York-based Satanic Temple comes after Oklahoma conservatives erected a monument to the Ten Commandments on the statehouse lawn. In 2009, the Republican-controlled Oklahoma Legislature authorized the privately funded Ten Commandments monument to be placed near the Capitol steps.

In so doing, the Legislature apparently opened the door to other religious groups, including satanists, to privately fund their own monuments.

This is what the legal community calls a "backfire," Christian news outlet Relevant wrote.

You don't say.
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby snoqueen » Tue Dec 10, 2013 9:17 pm

from the article:
Brady Henderson, legal director for ACLU Oklahoma, told AP that if state officials want to allow one type of religious expression, they must allow for others.

"If the Ten Commandments, with its overtly Christian message, is allowed to stay at the Capitol, the Satanic Temple's proposed monument cannot be rejected because of its different religious viewpoint,” Henderson said, adding that a better solution might be to ban any religious monuments from appearing on state property.


no shit.
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:40 am

This is getting out of hand. Now a Hindu group wants to erect a monument on the Capitol grounds to ...

Lord Hanuman, a Hindu deity "who was greatly revered and worshipped and known for incredible strength and was (a) perfect grammarian."


Lots of religions have deities known for their physical strength, but it's rare to see one that elevates deities for their grammatical prowess. Uncertain as to whether this description was really accurate, I took at peep at Wikipedia, which summarized Hanuman's attributes as follows:

* Ablest sentence maker.
* Know-er of all Vedas and Scriptures.
* Scholar in nine schools of grammars.
* Possessing faultless speech and facial features

Anyway, back to this Oklahoma State Capitol thing. From the Tulsa World:

Just days after the news broke that a Satanic Temple in New York City is seeking to build a monument to Satan on the grounds of the Oklahoma Capitol, a Hindu organization announced this week that it, too, would like to build a monument there, to one of its chief deities.

Rajan Zed, president of Universal Society of Hinduism, emailed his request to the Oklahoma State Capitol Preservation Commission.
[...]

He said the statue would raise awareness of Oklahomans about Hinduism.

Commission Chairman Trait Thompson, who also is a senior policy adviser for Senate Pro Tem Brian Bingman, said he had received the request from Zed and had referred him to the website, which has all the application forms.

"I suppose when one group gets some publicity, everyone else wants to make their point," he said.

Is there any chance a Hindu statue will be built at the Capitol?

"I can't speak for the commission," Thompson said.

"If they follow through and put forth a good application, it will be voted on. It's hard to say. There are a lot of factors."
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:54 am

From the AP:

Oklahoma Leaders Say Satanic Monument Unlikely

Yep, the leaders of the state House and Senate want to reassure God-fearing Oklahomans that this isn't going to happen. I'm guessing they've carefully avoided talking to any of their lawyers yet.

One wonders how many hours it will be before a Muslim group asks the State of Oklahoma to install a monument honoring the Qur'an.
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby kurt_w » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:03 am

OK, I have a weird sense of humor, but for some reason this amuses me. Two comments back I noted that:

kurt_w wrote:Lots of religions have deities known for their physical strength, but it's rare to see one that elevates deities for their grammatical prowess. Uncertain as to whether this description was really accurate, I took at peep at Wikipedia, which summarized Hanuman's attributes as follows:

* Ablest sentence maker.
* Know-er of all Vedas and Scriptures.
* Scholar in nine schools of grammars.
* Possessing faultless speech and facial features


Well, it turns out that there's something of a history to the Ten Commandments monument at the Oklahoma State Capitol. The first version had to be removed and replaced due to ... multiple spelling errors.

Clearly they should have asked Lord Hanuman for help.
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby DCB » Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:42 am

I love the "war on xmas".

Scare quotes translation: the "war" is entirely in the imaginations of wingnuts who are using "Christmas" as a proxy for their extreme right agenda. The "battle" is typically a legal argument about putting a Pagan solstice symbol on public property, in the name "Jesus".

News flash: Not all Christians believe there is a 'War on Christmas'
If you're not going to read the article, you really ought to see Ms. Evan's flowchart.

The hysterical outrage gets better every year. The folks at Wonkette found this lovely video that seamlessly merges Christmas with Halloween. Watch it if you dare!
http://wonkette.com/536046/the-war-on-c ... re-fuel-ad
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby DCB » Thu Dec 12, 2013 11:11 pm

Oh, yes, I do love the "war on xmas".
And then there’s Megyn Kelly on Fox, reassuring all the “kids watching at home” that Santa is very definitely a white guy. As is Jesus.

Read more at http://wonkette.com/536336/fox-news-meg ... rYuKoOm.99
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby kurt_w » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:19 am

Oklahoma politicians are not happy:

Oklahoma lawmakers are trying to block the influx of monuments, saying they run against public opinion in the heavily Christian state.

"This is a faith-based nation and a faith-based state," state Rep. Earl Sears told the Tulsa World.

"I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation," the Republican lawmaker said in a story published on Tuesday.

Oklahoma Speaker of the House T.W. Shannon's spokesman Joe Griffin told Reuters the Capitol was not an appropriate place for monuments such as the one proposed by the Satanists.

"The left-hand path philosophies of this organization do not align with the values of Oklahomans, nor the ideals this country or its laws are founded upon," Griffin said.


Obviously, the headline writers are having a field day with this story:

Beelzebubba (The Economist)

The Devil Went Down To Oklahoma (HuffPo)

‘Interactive Display for Children’ May Be Part of Proposed ‘Homage to Satan’ Near Ten Commandments (Christian News)

Atheists smug as Hindus join Satanists to demand display at Oklahoma Statehouse (Washington Times)
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby kurt_w » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:23 am

snoqueen wrote:from the article:
Brady Henderson, legal director for ACLU Oklahoma, told AP that if state officials want to allow one type of religious expression, they must allow for others.

"If the Ten Commandments, with its overtly Christian message, is allowed to stay at the Capitol, the Satanic Temple's proposed monument cannot be rejected because of its different religious viewpoint,” Henderson said, adding that a better solution might be to ban any religious monuments from appearing on state property.


no shit.


Actually, the ACLU may have lost that battle back in 2009, in Pleasant Grove City vs. Summum.

The Supreme Court unanimously upheld the right of a city to accept and display a privately funded monument from one group while rejecting similar monuments from other groups.

That case would seem to be virtually identical to this Oklahoma situation. So I'd say that if Oklahoma wants to reject any non-Christian monuments at the Capitol, the Supreme Court says they're free to do so.

Or so it seems to me. But I'm no lawyer.
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby wack wack » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:31 am

Convention, anyone?

What do we want? A NEW CONSTITUTION!

When do we need it? YESTERDAY!!!
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Re: Sauce for the goose

Postby wack wack » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:40 am

From Wiki, an explanation of Alito's opinion apparently in support of the Pleasant Grove decision:

According to Alito, "the display of a permanent monument in a public park" is perceived by an ordinary and reasonable observer to be an expression of values and ideas of the government, the owner of the park and the monument, even though the particular idea expressed by the monument is left to the interpretation of the individual observer.


I see this as an explanation as to why monuments should not be allowed. Guess I'll never be a Supreme.

I wonder what monuments are on display in Dearborn, MI, and whether or not they truly reflect that community.
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