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Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

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Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:42 pm

CBS Sports wrote:Pete Carroll: NFL should explore medical marijuana "if it helps players".

LOL. "Helps" them.
JERSEY CITY, N.J. -- There are only two states in the country where recreational marijuana use is legal and the NFL teams from those two states are playing in Super Bowl XLVIII. So it probably shouldn't come as any surprise that Seahawks coach Pete Carroll was asked about marijuana on Monday.

Legalize pot but by all means lose the intellectual conceit.

Are we really going to sit here and presuppose that a football league full of 23 year old players are desperately hoping medical marijuana is standardized because their joints (pun intended) are killing them? Is it possible to be so fucked up on pot that you forget what it's like to be fucked up on pot? Because you would have to be that fucked up to treat the idea of marijuana as an analgesic seriously. You would have to be so stoned on pot, you forgot what pot is really like, and thus being mentally incapacitated, suggestible to anything.

Let's not pretend the medical weed recipients are getting anything other then a euphoric pleasant feeling out of the grass they're parading around as medicine either. NFL doesn't want "medicinal" marijuana, it wants to not have to suspend their players for using it for what they're really going to use it for - for what ALL medical marijuana users really use it for - for the only thing you CAN use it for: getting stoned. I'm all for legalizing pot but let's have the intellectual honestly to admit the reason we think it should be legal is that there's nothing wrong with getting high.

I love how the wilfully self-delusional quote/un-quote activists feel duty bound to convince themselves that it has to be "magic weed" for it to be okay to smoke. Thank god for those dramatic souls who insist on the need to entertain us with their pathetic, blatant posturing.

The reason to legalize pot is that there's NOTHING FUCKING WRONG WITH POT. People need to quit fucking convincing themselves of all this ridiculous bullshit. You give cancer patients pot for the same reason you give them morphine: because they're about to die and it cheers them up. It gives them a good feeling to go along with the bad shit they have to go through; otherwise mentally they would not much pull through it. There is the medical value of any stimulant.

I don't get the self righteous, hollow rhetorical charade people have got to drag themselves through about this subject. I mean if you have to be that full of shit to support the right to get high, maybe weed is not for you.

Pete Carroll doesn't literally think his players [/puff] need like to actually [/puff] smoke weed for actual medical reasons [/laugh]. He just needs all the fucked up puritan Cassandras out there to delude themselves into thinking so.
Image
[/inhale\] Ahhhh.

Legalize Pot. But STFU.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby snoqueen » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:21 pm

I agree the "medical" aspect of cannabis legalization is silly. It's there to give the states an excuse to legalize something that should never have been illegal to begin with.

That's not the same, though, as saying cannabis has no medical uses. If it helps somebody through chemotherapy or whatever, that's good. But it's a sideshow, in a way. The majority of users will buy it for the purpose of getting high.

Objections to that ought to be countered directly instead of by hiding behind some medical excuse. We are doing a decent job beating back the sex-is-bad-unless-it's-for-procreation crap and a logical next step is getting past the notion people should be prevented from using cannabis for personal enjoyment.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Bwis53 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:36 pm

This hits a nerve for me. Grass never did a lot for me. My best friend died slowly and painfully for a year while on morphine for pancreatic cancer. I called everybody I could think of for grass to help her eat and tolerate chemo.

My family attorney commented that there are illegal drugs that work better than morphine and give the dying person a better quality of life.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Bludgeon » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:29 pm

That's another thing I don't get: just because canabis should have never been outlawed, is no reason people should have to pick on morphine. Personally it's not my favorite surgical pain suppressant, but it's in the right neighborhood. The thing that really got me agitated on this subject today was a discussion with a few moralist pontificators where the idea was bandied about that there was "absolutely no evidence" that opiates were effective in the treatment of chronic pain, the suggestion being that medical marijuana "was". This is a statement originating in part from the California Medical Society, where of course the conclusion was adlibbed regarding medicinal canabis. You know, how do you establish the evidence that a medicine is "effective" in the treatment of chronic pain, using this example? It's all response based clinical study of a phenomena they have no other way of measuring other than the polled responses of the participants. To me this kind of study is an exercise in futility, unless it's a survey with a wide sample with a large series of groups over a long period of time, which is a rare thing.

I really don't think any of the prohibition measures should have been passed - I mean what a period of blind, ideological folly. Imagine what we were thinking as a country to outlaw alcohol? It's hubris. But I'll maintain that the reason opiates never lost their place in medicine is that people who practice medicine in the face of pending mortality or grave injury don't have the luxury of bullshit. Opiates have a place in surgery, trauma and pallative care if nothing else. Personally I think their greater prohibition is unfounded as well, and I don't think there would be this epidemic of oxycontin overdosers if the substance were available in more natural, accessible forms.

Sorry about your friend, I've had similar experiences. You and Snow made me realize right away, I don't mean to suggest there are no medical benefits to canabis; but just to clarify that those are part of the benefits of "getting stoned". And of course I do mean to point out that most of what we pretend and say about 'medicinal' marijuana is a wild distortion of the truth and as Snow correctly classified it, a diversion or sideshow from what ought to be the real conversation. I find it kind of irks me that we are still living under the shadow of this huge legislative mistake called prohibition, yet we all feel such a strong degree of pressure to pay lip service to it's folly.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:41 am

Bludgeon wrote:Because you would have to be that fucked up to treat the idea of marijuana as an analgesic seriously.


Not sure if it meets the definition of an "analgesic" per se but it certainly is a relaxant. (I used to get so relaxed I couldn't move for hours) and seems like it might be good for the bumps and bruises of football.

The reason to legalize pot is that there's NOTHING FUCKING WRONG WITH POT.


I would not go along with nothing at all but you are generally right.

It is not the reason to legalize it, though. It should still be legal even if there were things seriously wrong with it for one reason:

"My body, my choice"

I have the right to do with my body as I wish.

That there is little harmful about pot is certainly an argument against illegalization but certainly not the top one.

(Usual caveats about adults apply)

John Henry


People need to quit fucking convincing themselves of all this ridiculous bullshit. You give cancer patients pot for the same reason you give them morphine: because they're about to die and it cheers them up. It gives them a good feeling to go along with the bad shit they have to go through; otherwise mentally they would not much pull through it. There is the medical value of any stimulant.

I don't get the self righteous, hollow rhetorical charade people have got to drag themselves through about this subject. I mean if you have to be that full of shit to support the right to get high, maybe weed is not for you.

Pete Carroll doesn't literally think his players [/puff] need like to actually [/puff] smoke weed for actual medical reasons [/laugh]. He just needs all the fucked up puritan Cassandras out there to delude themselves into thinking so.
Image
[/inhale\] Ahhhh.

Legalize Pot. But STFU.[/quote]
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby rabble » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:42 am

johnfajardohenry wrote: People need to quit fucking convincing themselves of all this ridiculous bullshit. You give cancer patients pot for the same reason you give them morphine: because they're about to die and it cheers them up. It gives them a good feeling to go along with the bad shit they have to go through; otherwise mentally they would not much pull through it. There is the medical value of any stimulant.

I'm guessing you didn't see the Gupta special. The "cheering up" part is mostly because it makes them feel physically better. Physically better. The stuff is a mild painkiller, stimulates appetite, increases heart rate, lowers blood pressure, and has several other physical effects. There's a mental aspect too, but he showed us patient after patient who got a real and positive physical effect that cancelled out a real and negative physical symptom. The Israelis don't strike me as people who go along with stoner's excuses and stories, and they have an extensive marijuana treatment program.

There IS a medical use for pot. Saying that it's just a mood elevating placebo for terminal patients is as wrong as saying it's a dangerous addictive drug.

Having said that, Sno is right. It never should have been illegal in the first place because it's not in and of itself, dangerous. It can be misused like a thousand other things and making it illegal makes it more difficult to educate and handle the people who misuse it.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:52 am

rabble wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote: People need to quit fucking convincing themselves of all this ridiculous bullshit. You give cancer patients pot for the same reason you give them morphine: because they're about to die and it cheers them up. It gives them a good feeling to go along with the bad shit they have to go through; otherwise mentally they would not much pull through it. There is the medical value of any stimulant.


Actually John Henry did not write that. I do generally agree with it, though. Hmmm.... Let's see if you get hammered the way I did a couple days ago when this happened to me. NTTAWWT.

I'm guessing you didn't see the Gupta special. The "cheering up" part is mostly because it makes them feel physically better. Physically better. The stuff is a mild painkiller, stimulates appetite, increases heart rate, lowers blood pressure, and has several other physical effects. There's a mental aspect too, but he showed us patient after patient who got a real and positive physical effect that cancelled out a real and negative physical symptom.


Didn't see Gupta but I have seen and read enough over the years to be in agreement that the above is correct.

There IS a medical use for pot. Saying that it's just a mood elevating placebo for terminal patients is as wrong as saying it's a dangerous addictive drug.


Does it elevate mood or is it a placebo? Either way, just making people feel better, less depressed, etc seems like it would be a medical use in and of itself.

It can be misused like a thousand other things


I think I disagree with this. Can you provide some examples of how it might be misused?

Only way I can think of is that it might rot ambition in some people. On the other hand, if your ambition is to get high and watch cartoons all day, it doesn't even do that. :) (Nod to Elmore Leonard)

John Henry
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby wack wack » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:11 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Does it elevate mood or is it a placebo?
John Henry


It is not a placebo; it alters mood, that is certain. Most often it is a euphoric, but it can heighten feelings of depression too. Depends a lot on the user and the situation.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:19 am

Marijuana stops child's severe seizures

When I throw out my back I take Ibuprofen to alleviate the pain. It doesn't cure my back, just helps with the pain. Is Ibuprofen not medicine?
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:56 am

This thread could use some of dem new Oreo Birthday Cake flavor dealios.
Image
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby rabble » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:00 am

Okay bludgie, there you are.

That's the reason we have to use the "medical marijuana" tactic. Remember Obama's joke about it a few years ago? To get a law repealed, people have to take you seriously. That's why the Republicans can't repeal Obamacare after 40 tries.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby jman111 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:15 pm

Fer chrissake, why can't the fucking wizard figure out how to use a simple quote function?
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Bludgeon » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:23 pm

Goddamn it JohnHenry no constructive conversation is safe from you.
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:06 am

Bludgeon wrote:Goddamn it JohnHenry no constructive conversation is safe from you.


Sounds like you put your pantypad sticky side up. Is there something particular I said?

I thought we were pretty much in agreement in this thread. Perhaps that's the problem?

John Henry
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Re: Legalize Pot but Ban the Bullshit.

Postby Rich Schultz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:21 pm

ImageObama Lies to Jake Tapper About His Ability to Reschedule Marijuana
http://justsaynow.firedoglake.com/2014/01/31/obama-lies-to-jake-tapper-about-his-ability-to-reschedule-marijuana/

"Obama, Who Evidently Has Not Read the Controlled Substances Act, Denies That He Has the Power to Reclassify Marijuana"

" Obama often speaks as if he is an outside observer of his own administration—condemning excessively long prison sentences while hardly ever using his clemency power to shorten them, sounding the alarm about his own abuses of executive power in the name of fighting terrorism, worrying about the threat to privacy posed by surveillance programs he authorized. Now here he is, trying to distance himself from his own administration's refusal to reclassify marijuana."
http://reason.com/blog/2014/01/31/obama-who-evidently-has-not-read-the-con
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