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Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:11 am

Perhaps a good question to think about here would by why any minimum wage should even exist?

My body, my choice.

I should have the right to choose how much I am willing to accept for my work.

John Henry
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby rabble » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:07 am

That would work if the labor pool could get food and health care somewhere else.

It's easier to find workers who accept less than subsistence wages when their kids are hungry and sick. Eliminate that leverage and I think the market would respond.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:16 am

I see some conservative business interests are claiming that raising the federal minimum wage would cost jobs. That has been the claim ever since the federal minimum wage was first proposed and every time it was raised. Yet the total job numbers continued to climb. Do they really believe McDonald's restaurants are going to close up shop if they have to pay their workers a living wage?
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby wack wack » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:23 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Perhaps a good question to think about here would by why any minimum wage should even exist?
John Henry


To prevent company towns. Again.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby rabble » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:24 am

Henry Vilas wrote:I see some conservative business interests are claiming that raising the federal minimum wage would cost jobs. That has been the claim ever since the federal minimum wage was first proposed and every time it was raised. Yet the total job numbers continued to climb. Do they really believe McDonald's restaurants are going to close up shop if they have to pay their workers a living wage?

No, they're banking everything on "your burger is going to cost more." Daily Show did a piece on it. "Yeah, I love the taste of despair in my chocolate shake. I'd hate to lose that."
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:49 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:Perhaps a good question to think about here would by why any minimum wage should even exist?

My body, my choice.

I should have the right to choose how much I am willing to accept for my work.

John Henry

Great idea. Instead of a minimum wage, CEO salaries should be pegged to 25-40x that of the lowest paid workers, about where it was pre-Reagan. CEOs don't like it, they can do something else. Their body, their choice.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby peripat » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:44 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Great idea. Instead of a minimum wage, CEO salaries should be pegged to 25-40x that of the lowest paid workers, about where it was pre-Reagan. CEOs don't like it, they can do something else. Their body, their choice.


Why there? If a body can live on minimum wage a body should be able to live large on 10X minimum wage
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby Stella_Guru » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:28 pm

peripat wrote: If a body can live on minimum wage a body should be able to live large on 10X minimum wage

"Minimum wage" is slave talk. "Living large" is the talk of the Wall St. caucasoid elites and their hand maidens, the Billary, Gore, Obama style corp DLC Dems and their Republican brothers.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:01 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:Great idea. Instead of a minimum wage, CEO salaries should be pegged to 25-40x that of the lowest paid workers, about where it was pre-Reagan. CEOs don't like it, they can do something else. Their body, their choice.
A "Maximum Wage" cap like Mondragon Corporation has, cool!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between executive work and field or factory work which earns a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in his/her cooperative. In reality, this ratio is smaller because there are few Mondragon worker-owners that earn minimum wages...

... The wage ratio of a cooperative is decided periodically by its worker-owners through a democratic vote.

Compared to similar jobs at local industries, Mondragon wages are 30% or less at management levels and equivalent for middle management, technical and professional levels. Lower wage levels are on average 13% higher than similar jobs at local businesses.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:23 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Do they really believe McDonald's restaurants are going to close up shop if they have to pay their workers a living wage?


A few will. More will never open in the first place. But you are right, McDs will survive and profit nicely. It will be the other, more marginally efficient chains that close up shop.

What will happen, because it has been happening sine the McDonald brothers opened the first McDonalds in the 40s, is that they will keep working at becoming more efficient. As in more productivity per worker. As in automation.

The real benificiary of a higher minimum wage will not be the workers, many of whom will no longer have jobs, but companies like Amazon which are heavily into robotics. (Kiva and Rethink Robotics belong to them) Robots will cost about the same regardless of what happens to minimum wages. The people who build and maintain the robots makes some multiple of minimum.

Baxter, from Rethink, is $22,000, ready to run, out of the box. Two, not one, arms. Vision systems in each arm. Sensors that allow it to run without guarding. Can be programmed by a min wage worker. Portable and cheap enough not to need onsite maintenance.

Now think of the min wage worker making $10/hr. Cost to the employer is probably $15-20/hr. ($30-40m/yr)

So what do you think the employer will do? $30-40m/yr for a worker for about 2,000 hours a year? Or a one time cost of $30,000 for a robot who works 8,000 hours per year.

It is kind of a brainer, isn't it?

BTW: WITC in New Richmond has a good program in robotics. If you have a kid looking for a useful career, they could do a lot worse.

Say hi to Baxter:

Image

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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby rabble » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:04 pm

Actually it's a no brainer. If you can't afford to pay your employees a living wage, your business is already being subsidized and you shouldn't be working for yourself; you should be working for somebody who knows how to run a business.

Robots didn't do the auto industry a whole lot of good. We'll see how well Amazon manages to replace their ibuprofen-filled force of aching knees and backs with machines. Great idea in theory.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:09 pm

Mary Burke backs a bill that would raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour. Scott Walker calls that move "political grandstanding" - this from a guy who proposes giving a presumed state surplus back to the voters just prior to the gubernatorial election.
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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:36 pm

rabble wrote:Robots didn't do the auto industry a whole lot of good.


They didn't do GM and Chrysler much good but both those companies should have been out of business decades ago. Ford has done very well with robots as have other American auto manufacturers like Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc.

Most people think automation=robots. While robots are perhaps the sexiest image of automation, they may also be one of the least important in terms of total impact. Higher wages not only make robots more feasible, they make all automation more feasible. Next time you go to your local McDonalds, look how many people they have working there. They are moving twice the product with half the workforce they did 20 years ago. Not a robot in the place but lots of automation.

We'll see how well Amazon manages to replace their ibuprofen-filled force of aching knees and backs with machines. Great idea in theory.


Not just in theory, robotic warehouses have been around for 30 years or more. It is a well proven technology. There are probably tens of thousands of robotic warehouses in operation in the US.

I would think you would be in favor of them. After all they free those Amazon Ibuprofen taking wage slaves from their crap jobs.

Perhaps from all jobs, ever. But that's not your concern, is it. You did your part, you cared(tm) about them and that is all that is necessary. Right?

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Re: Min. Wage Worth $2 Less Than It Was In 1968:

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:41 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Mary Burke backs a bill that would raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour.


It is a shame she was too busy to actually appear with Obie the other day when he said that, isn't it.

What I do not understand is why stop at $10? That's only about $20m/yr and who can live on that? Most people already make more than that and won't be directly affected.

Why not go big and impose a $30 or $40/hr minimum wage. That would impact a large portion of the working population.

After all, I think you were the one who said raising the minimum wage does not cost jobs, right?

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