MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Thursday, November 27, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 16.0° F  Partly Cloudy
Collapse Photo Bar

Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 pm

You'll have to take Segway, but originally from Brian Bliss. They're making this offer to smaller towns in Wisconsin: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/01/29 ... statewide/
jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby bdog » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:27 pm

I think the Simpsons have best demonstrated the dangers of...


A clause present in every great commentary.
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby rabble » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:32 pm

We'll give you free voting machines. Just put these in there, and it will all be fine. No annoying paper trails. No problems with recounts. Just click the key and the number pops up.

For the recount, click the key again. See? Same number. No problem.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6474
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:21 am

I don't know how many people are familiar with Barbara With's May 31, 2011 complaint to the GAB about touch screen machines, but this is pretty revealing: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/2 ... in-Kennedy
jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby rabble » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:42 am

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that this letter will not only not bother bdog, ned, x5, meade, and the rest of the circle jerk crowd, but they'll come up with many reasons why it's just plain ridiculous and anyway, the person who wrote it used bad grammar.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6474
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby snoqueen » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:54 am

And we know referencing the DailyKos automatically nullifies all reasonable arguments.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11765
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jimoo » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:04 am

Interesting and disconcerting piece.
jimoo
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:47 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:22 am

More Wisconsin cities etc. accepting free touch screen machines from Command Central and Dominion... Click the link on this page, and sign in...

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Wisconsin ... 7655100211
jonnygothispen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3218
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:53 pm

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby bdog » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:26 pm

I don't like the touch screen systems.

I'm reminded of one of the Hannibal Lector books where an orderly says something to the effect of only people who don't what they're doing use handcuffs as they're too easy to get out of.

All you have to do is pick the lock.
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:41 pm

On that, I totally agree.

The optical scan method used in Madison seems the best. Quick, easy and accurate tabulations, all with paper backup.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20164
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:22 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:The optical scan method used in Madison seems the best. Quick, easy and accurate tabulations, all with paper backup.


Richard Hayes Phillips documents a number of ways that optical scan systems were manipulated in the Ohio 2004 election in his book, "Witness To A Crime." Paper backups don't matter if extra ballots are run through the machines or if physical recounts are blocked by courts, etc.
jhain
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 7:38 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:52 pm

Given that, as no method is beyond mendacity the optical scan is much preferable to computer voting, with secret software ( aka proprietary information) and absolutely no accountability as to reported results.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20164
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:08 pm

How is it better since both systems can be rigged?

Different techniques are used depending on the type of equipment and whether the vote totals need to go up or down to get the desired result.

In areas of Ohio where Kerry was expected to win, it was easier in most cases to hack optical scan polling places than ones with touch screen.

Phillips' book is fascinating. He also has a (somewhat dry) video on youtube where he describes what he found in his investigation.
jhain
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 7:38 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:42 pm

jhain wrote:How is it better since both systems can be rigged?

So your solution is...?

Practical but not utopian, please.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20164
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Free "upgrade" from paper ballots to touch screen

Postby jhain » Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:06 pm

First step would be to count ballots publicly at the polling place as soon as voting ends. Compare the number of ballots to the poll books. Places that do this then remove overvotes by random drawing. In this system optical scan or machine with a voter verified printout works fine.

One of the problems with paper ballots is chain-of-command and tampering off-site. Another is pre-marked ballots that render a voter's votes invalid. Extra ballots can be run that are marked for the candidate of choice. The machines can also shift votes if poll workers run them through the wrong machines at multi-precinct polling places.

I do agree that touch screen are the worst possible option but worry that people put too much faith in optical scan. It is only marginally better in that there is a record. That is helpful only if a re-count is allowed and the ballots weren't tampered with after the fact.
jhain
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1267
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 7:38 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Next

Return to Local Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar