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right to die

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

right to die

Postby Huckleby » Thu May 09, 2013 9:59 pm

There was collective excitement today, at least in the media, that the Castro greaseball in Cleveland will likely face a death sentence.
The other tidbit of news is that Castro is on suicide watch, people are very concerned that he might kill himself.

Anybody else see a disturbing contradiction here?
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Re: right to die

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu May 09, 2013 10:26 pm

Seems like they could give a couple of guards the night off and save the state all kinds of money.

What? you think our criminal justice system should make sense?
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Re: right to die

Postby narcoleptish » Thu May 09, 2013 10:53 pm

At least as much sense as our healthcare system. Keeping worn out people alive with a dozen or more prescriptions so that their family can wheel them in for their 3-month appointments with 6 different specialists who pop in just long enough to justify their $400 fees and remind them to make another appointment on the way out.

What makes more sense than "living" like that?
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Re: right to die

Postby snoqueen » Fri May 10, 2013 8:46 am

Don't get me started...
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Re: right to die

Postby wack wack » Fri May 10, 2013 8:50 am

Huckleby wrote:There was collective excitement today, at least in the media, that the Castro greaseball in Cleveland will likely face a death sentence.
The other tidbit of news is that Castro is on suicide watch, people are very concerned that he might kill himself.

Anybody else see a disturbing contradiction here?


Oh yeah, it's ridiculous; not as offensively ridiculous as force-feeding hunger-strikers, but ridiculous nonetheless.
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Re: right to die

Postby Huckleby » Fri May 10, 2013 10:01 am

We're a nation of people who claim to be about freedom and individualism and limited government. But actually, when push comes to shove, our conservative brothers and sisters have a powerful authoritarian streak, they are willing to have the state intervene in the most personal decisions.

In this case, I think people are also worried about losing the thrill of the kill, ultimate vengeance.

I was listening to an interview recently with a philosopher/undertaker regarding the difficulty in finding a grave site for the boston bomber. He argued it was important to treat every corpse with respect, as a measure of our humanity. He also noted that 300 years ago, suicide was considered the most heinous crime imaginable, and people who took their life weren't given a proper burial. I suspect our society's reluctance to accept an individuals' right-to-die is colored by this religious tradition.

My neighbor is a member of the Hemlock Society. I think I should check it out - but don't get your hopes up, I myself am not ready to check out.
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Re: right to die

Postby Comrade » Fri May 10, 2013 11:32 am

Actually, I don't think this is a conservative/liberal issue.

They (the establishment in this case) wants him alive so due process can occur. They want more information as to the facts--exactly what and why.

AFTER that point, presuming he is guilty, they don't really care if he is executed or is killed in prison like Jeffrey Dahmer was.

That being said, point taken about how it doesn't make sense. Nothing in cases like this usually does.
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Re: right to die

Postby Huckleby » Fri May 10, 2013 12:41 pm

Comrade wrote:Actually, I don't think this is a conservative/liberal issue.

Conservative opinion is (in contrast to their purported ideals on government & freedom) usually in favor of the death penalty, and opposed to an individual being allowed to end their life. There are libertarian strains of conservatism on the opposite side of these issues, so the generalization doesn't hold perfectly.

As far as due process, the system of justice is probably keen to strut their stuff, as you suggest. And our morbid curiosity wants to know more about the guy, therefore keep him alive.
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Re: right to die

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 10, 2013 1:10 pm

I think it's probably a bit more complex than a liberal/conservative issues, though both come into play as well.

Lets face it, American's love their circus. We can't have gladiators ripping each other apart for our amusement, so instead we follow the most horrific or shocking court cases available. What's more horrifing than 3 pretty young women who were kept locked up in some "monster's" house (bonus point's for him being a minority to boot). How dare said "monster" seek to end his life before we have been entertained. Once we've had the chance to dig through all the purient details of his life and transgressions, then society will give him the thumbs up or thumbs down sign as it sees fit.
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Re: right to die

Postby Comrade » Fri May 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Comrade wrote:Actually, I don't think this is a conservative/liberal issue.

Conservative opinion is (in contrast to their purported ideals on government & freedom) usually in favor of the death penalty, and opposed to an individual being allowed to end their life. There are libertarian strains of conservatism on the opposite side of these issues, so the generalization doesn't hold perfectly.

As far as due process, the system of justice is probably keen to strut their stuff, as you suggest. And our morbid curiosity wants to know more about the guy, therefore keep him alive.


This is no different than in Boston and the effort made to keep the younger brother alive after they found him. Its not because they care about his life, but rather they value the information they think might be obtainable from him.

That is neither conservative nor liberal. That is also a valid point about society in general and Shadenfreude. In the lack of gladiators as mentioned, some seek delight in this. That is also true on both sides. It is not true that conservative are hypocrites for seeking the termination of rights for convicted criminals while promoting freedom in general. While they do believe in freedom, they also understand that there are consequences and prices to be paid for certain actions and behavior in any civilized society. The arguements are usually over where to draw the lines and what the price should be, and those are valid points of contention and discussion.
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Re: right to die

Postby Huckleby » Fri May 10, 2013 2:38 pm

Well, I think that Castro and Tsnaraev should be allowed to remain silent or off themselves. I see the right to die as a human right.

I would give either of them incentives to keep living and do some talking, however.
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Re: right to die

Postby gargantua » Fri May 10, 2013 4:15 pm

Huckleby wrote: I see the right to die as a human right.


Unconditionally? Say you're the single parent of 4 young kids. You're depressed, lost your job, not in the best of health. Do you believe that person has the right to take his or her own life? I would argue that would be morally wrong.

Convicted felons, I would be indifferent to. I would say that society should not facilitate such an act.
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Re: right to die

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri May 10, 2013 4:25 pm

gargantua wrote:
Huckleby wrote: I see the right to die as a human right.


Unconditionally? Say you're the single parent of 4 young kids. You're depressed, lost your job, not in the best of health. Do you believe that person has the right to take his or her own life? I would argue that would be morally wrong.

Convicted felons, I would be indifferent to. I would say that society should not facilitate such an act.



Interesting concept. hypothetically, would either of you be ok with a convitcted (but not nessesarily sentenced) felon being given the choice of ending their life rather than serving a sentence? I can't imagine many would take the option, but apparently some would.

I think that people have a right to chose to stop living due to medical conditions, I'm not sure that that goes so far as a right to actively end their life, especially if they have existing responsibilities such as children or excesive debts that they would be passing on to a partner. Sorry, but you created your mess, you don't get to run away from it.
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Re: right to die

Postby Huckleby » Fri May 10, 2013 5:35 pm

gargantua wrote: Unconditionally? Say you're the single parent of 4 young kids. You're depressed, lost your job, not in the best of health. Do you believe that person has the right to take his or her own life? I would argue that would be morally wrong.

Convicted felons, I would be indifferent to. I would say that society should not facilitate such an act.


Unconditionally, yes. I don't think government, a.k.a. society, has any role in choosing who has a right to end their own life, despite how you feel about the value of any particular life.

Parents of kids can do lots of destructive things: drink too much, quit their jobs. If they aren't fit parents, take the kids away.
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Re: right to die

Postby Huckleby » Fri May 10, 2013 5:37 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:I think that people have a right to chose to stop living due to medical conditions, I'm not sure that that goes so far as a right to actively end their life, especially if they have existing responsibilities such as children or excesive debts that they would be passing on to a partner. Sorry, but you created your mess, you don't get to run away from it.


Who are you to tell another person how to live, or not live, their own life?
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