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Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

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Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby manoletters » Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:35 pm

This cover doesn't seem so brilliant to me, when you consider that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is already guilty in the mind of Rolling Stone magazine, well before he's been tried and convicted, which seems a near-certainty. I'm so "glad" Rolling Stone doesn't approve of the idea that there should be a presumption of innocence, even in the most heinous crimes.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... alism.html
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Steve Vokers » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:05 pm

Maybe because he is guilty?
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:13 pm

I liked that picture of Tsarnaev. I don't believe it is likely to glamorize him, as so many angry people are claiming. Give people some credit. The fact that he looks so soft and appealing illustrates the genuine mystery and horror of the situation.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:15 pm

manoletters wrote: there should be a presumption of innocence, even in the most heinous crimes.
That's for the courts and legal system. People and feature story writers aren't obligated to presume anything.

As a general philosophy, I give people a lot of latitude, I'm slow to judgement. But I'm not completely stupid.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Steve Vokers » Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:19 pm

Yep, it's not like there isn't a shit ton of evidence that incriminates the dude. His legal strategy is going to be pretty much limited to trying to avoid a death sentence.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:36 pm

I think the idea of mystery is what makes the cover photo compelling. How could someone who looked so angelic -- and evidently had school friends who liked him and thought well of him -- end up changed with such a bizarre and awful crime?
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby manoletters » Sat Jul 20, 2013 1:52 pm

I didn't mean to suggest that there is any rule, written in stone, that people outside the legal system must abide by in this regard. But I hope that each and every one of us on this thread, should worse come to worst, be extended the presumption of innocence. That includes the way the media characterizes us. Failing that, one's lawyers should seek a change of venue. There should be a "voir dire" of the jury, to detect any biased influence resulting from such slanted coverage. Of course, to find a fair and impartial jury in this highly sensationalized case, the trial would have to be moved to Mars. And indeed, Tsarnaev MAY be guilty. Thats a far cry from describing him as "The Bomber," rather than "The Alleged Bomber." I disdain the reflexively authoritarian streak that has become one of the hallmarks of American society.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Rich Schultz » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:16 pm

manoletters wrote:I can only say: The verdict in the George Zimmerman case amounts to a minimally-veiled declaration - or rather a reiteration - of an "open season" on Black Americans. There seems to have been a sort of "hunting licence" issued July 13, describing an entire ethnicity as being unworthy of life itself. The young man was MURDERED, and for what? For walking back from a nearby convenience store after he purchased some skittles?!


manoletters wrote: But I hope that each and every one of us on this thread, should worse come to worst, be extended the presumption of innocence.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jul 20, 2013 2:55 pm

Al Capone was an innocent man. He was never, ever guilty of directing the killing of hundreds. He was never, ever guilty of being a gangster. Innocent as the pure driven snow.

Of course in the very end of his life Al was finally found guilty of something - tax evasion, but that is a small stain on a great man's record.

Al Capone, OJ Simpson, George Zimmerman were presumed innocent. OF course juries never declared them innocent, simply not-guilty. But those who presume innocence have no particular reason to stop.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby manoletters » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:27 pm

Oh yes indeed, there's no need, no need whatsoever for that quaint, obsolete precept that USED TO presume a defendant innocent until PROVEN guilty. Examples abound: George W. Bush is so TRANSPARENTLY guilty of having lied us into unjustified war against Iraq that we don't need no stinking trial regarding W's unspeakable crimes against humanity. He's directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who posed America no threat at all. Let's just toss him into Leavenworth, and throw away the key. Hell, I'd go even further - I'll let the viewers of this thread determine what Bush's appropriate punishment should be... no need, no need for a jury of Bush's peers, and some silly goddamn magistrate to pass sentence. Ronald Reagan was OBVIOUSLY culpable of trading weapons for hostages in the Iran-Contra affair - he should have been punished -maybe by a howling MOB, to the limit! Never mind any type of judicial process. Barack Obama should be removed from office immediately! Why? For his rampant violations of international law, like waging - even escalating - an unconstitutional, undeclared war against Afghanistan. Not to mention the fact the president meets with his equally bloodthirsty advisors in the White House every Tuesday Morning, to decide which American citizens/foreigners need to be added to his obscene "Kill List." No need, no need at all for impeachment proceedings: we all know he's guilty as hell of tossing lethal drones against unarmed civilians. We Americans are so superior to the rest of Humanity, we NEED NOT BOTHER with trials, hearings, or any other type of procedure to ferret out and definitively establish the actual TRUTH. Yeah, RIGHT! And the Constitution is nothing more than a lousy scrap of paper.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Sandi » Mon Jul 22, 2013 8:26 pm

Huckleby wrote:I liked that picture of Tsarnaev. I don't believe it is likely to glamorize him, as so many angry people are claiming. Give people some credit. The fact that he looks so soft and appealing illustrates the genuine mystery and horror of the situation.


Exactly. It irks me that some think that we all ( privately or publicly ) have to judge as if we are the courts.

Unless we are participating in the courtroom, the first amendment says we can judge any case however we want.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby Steve Vokers » Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:08 am

manoletters wrote:Oh yes indeed, there's no need, no need whatsoever for that quaint, obsolete precept that USED TO presume a defendant innocent until PROVEN guilty. Examples abound: George W. Bush is so TRANSPARENTLY guilty of having lied us into unjustified war against Iraq that we don't need no stinking trial regarding W's unspeakable crimes against humanity. He's directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who posed America no threat at all. Let's just toss him into Leavenworth, and throw away the key. Hell, I'd go even further - I'll let the viewers of this thread determine what Bush's appropriate punishment should be... no need, no need for a jury of Bush's peers, and some silly goddamn magistrate to pass sentence. Ronald Reagan was OBVIOUSLY culpable of trading weapons for hostages in the Iran-Contra affair - he should have been punished -maybe by a howling MOB, to the limit! Never mind any type of judicial process. Barack Obama should be removed from office immediately! Why? For his rampant violations of international law, like waging - even escalating - an unconstitutional, undeclared war against Afghanistan. Not to mention the fact the president meets with his equally bloodthirsty advisors in the White House every Tuesday Morning, to decide which American citizens/foreigners need to be added to his obscene "Kill List." No need, no need at all for impeachment proceedings: we all know he's guilty as hell of tossing lethal drones against unarmed civilians. We Americans are so superior to the rest of Humanity, we NEED NOT BOTHER with trials, hearings, or any other type of procedure to ferret out and definitively establish the actual TRUTH. Yeah, RIGHT! And the Constitution is nothing more than a lousy scrap of paper.


Cool story, bro.
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby wack wack » Tue Jul 23, 2013 7:38 am

Sandi wrote:
Huckleby wrote:I liked that picture of Tsarnaev. I don't believe it is likely to glamorize him, as so many angry people are claiming. Give people some credit. The fact that he looks so soft and appealing illustrates the genuine mystery and horror of the situation.


Exactly. It irks me that some think that we all ( privately or publicly ) have to judge as if we are the courts.

Unless we are participating in the courtroom, the first amendment says we can judge any case however we want.


OMG, we all agree on something. WTF IS HAPPENING?!?!?!
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby manoletters » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:02 pm

Steve Vokers wrote:
manoletters wrote:Oh yes indeed, there's no need, no need whatsoever for that quaint, obsolete precept that USED TO presume a defendant innocent until PROVEN guilty. Examples abound: George W. Bush is so TRANSPARENTLY guilty of having lied us into unjustified war against Iraq that we don't need no stinking trial regarding W's unspeakable crimes against humanity. He's directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who posed America no threat at all. Let's just toss him into Leavenworth, and throw away the key. Hell, I'd go even further - I'll let the viewers of this thread determine what Bush's appropriate punishment should be... no need, no need for a jury of Bush's peers, and some silly goddamn magistrate to pass sentence. Ronald Reagan was OBVIOUSLY culpable of trading weapons for hostages in the Iran-Contra affair - he should have been punished -maybe by a howling MOB, to the limit! Never mind any type of judicial process. Barack Obama should be removed from office immediately! Why? For his rampant violations of international law, like waging - even escalating - an unconstitutional, undeclared war against Afghanistan. Not to mention the fact the president meets with his equally bloodthirsty advisors in the White House every Tuesday Morning, to decide which American citizens/foreigners need to be added to his obscene "Kill List." No need, no need at all for impeachment proceedings: we all know he's guilty as hell of tossing lethal drones against unarmed civilians. We Americans are so superior to the rest of Humanity, we NEED NOT BOTHER with trials, hearings, or any other type of procedure to ferret out and definitively establish the actual TRUTH. Yeah, RIGHT! And the Constitution is nothing more than a lousy scrap of paper.


Cool story, bro.


To the extent that it's a story, Steve, it's a TRUE story.
George W. Bush DID lead overly-credulous Americans into the Iraq war via a campaign of deceit and lies. Reagan DID trade arms for hostages, and eventually admitted as much. And Barack Obama does have a (formerly) secret "Kill LIst." Precisely who's on that list remains a secret, only to be revealed when the drone hits the target, if at all. The war in Afghanistan IS, and remains unconstitutional.
As for the American public, the vast majority, anyway... My motto is:

Power to the People....
BUT:
Slaughter to the Sheeple.

And slaughter by a government out of bounds, out of control and totally outrageous is the best thing tens of millions of American scumsuckers may expect. To which category do YOU belong?
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Re: Dzhokhar Tsarnaev declared guilty in advance

Postby manoletters » Tue Jul 23, 2013 3:20 pm

Here's something worth remembering, for all those who are ALREADY so CERTAIN Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is guilty:
http://articles.philly.com/1996-10-29/n ... jewell-fbi
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