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Exodus 2

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Exodus 2

Postby pjbogart » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:12 pm

So I'm sure you're all watching with a least a bit of interest as unrest in Egypt is claiming hundreds of lives and poised to claim thousands more. They've really stuck their foot in it this time, and let's hope we aren't silly enough to follow suit. Egypt was really the catalyst that got the "Arab Spring" rolling, but the ouster of Mubarek and democratic elections merely ushered in a new oppressive government, this one Islamist in nature and diametrically opposed to all of the principles that overthrew the Mubarek regime in the first place. But don't worry, the military intervened, ousted and arrested the Pro-Islamist Mohamed Morsi and promised to relinquish power to a NEW democratically elected government. Morsi supporters weren't amused, took to the streets and the military, having only one tool at their disposal, began killing people.

So I'm imagining myself at a quaint cafe in Norway chatting with my friends who are wondering if we should maybe intervene militarily in Egypt. Huh? What, like you mean invade them or just drop some bombs on them? We're from fucking Norway! We haven't invaded anyone since we had long beards and horns on our helmets!

But thus is the peculiar persepective of Americans. Democracy is in peril. The Suez canal is a strategic shipping route. If civil war breaks out, someone might blow up the Sphinx. And if the Islamists win they will surely want revenge on the secularists and Christians who fought them. WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING!!!

If civil war breaks out in Egypt, the situation in Israel will become quite tenuous, and being our greatest ally in the region, that's some cause for concern for us. But didn't Israel just announce more settlements in Palestinian controlled territories this week, to the condemnation of the Administration? If our bratty little brother in the region insists on sticking his finger in the eye of all of his classmates, at what point do we just say, "fuck it, fight your own battles" and watch from a distance?

And since when do we have the authority to tell Egypt what to do with their protesters? If they killed a tenth of the civilians that we murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan, the world would be shocked by the bloodshed.

Of course, Republicans are ready to pounce at the Obama Administration's inaction, or their action, regardless of what it is. Even if you let the House of Representatives decide our next move, they'd just come up with something that benefits some military contractors (and donors) and then attach a rider that repeals Obamacare.

When are we going to become energy independent and just tell the Middle East to burn whatever they like? Not to be crass, but all this worrying (and dollars) hasn't done us a shit of good so far, so why should we believe it will do us a shit of good in the future?
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Re: Exodus 2

Postby Detritus » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:24 pm

Our national motto has become "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." Or maybe "Never leave well enough alone."

Or both.
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Re: Exodus 2

Postby pjbogart » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:12 pm

I think we're bound to start seeing more public commentary on this topic from politicians and though I'd hope to see them stick to the facts and issues, history tells me they'll try to bale some hay with whatever straws they manage to grasp.

But Lindsey Graham, of all people, makes a pretty valid point when he opines that the crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood in a country that is overwhelmingly Muslim is bound to turn victims into martyrs. It would be nice if we could all agree on this very simple point.

Leadership changes in countries where violence is practically the norm usually leads to more violence as the new leaders punish the people who they are supplanting. I think many people around the world, including politicians of both stripes in The United States hoped that Egypt would rise above their recent past and embrace democracy with peaceful transitions, but it doesn't seem to be playing out as planned. Current talk is that the Egyptian government may ban the Muslim Brotherhood, which would be about as effective as Obama unilaterally banning the Tea Party.

So what happens if and when the Muslim Brotherhood regains control? More sectarian violence, revenge killings, political persecution and perhaps civil war? I think the President's tempered approach to Syria has been understandable. I'm not going to second guess his decisions when I only have a fraction of the facts. But Egypt is a different creature and what happens in Egypt may have a ripple effect across the entire Middle East. I think it's very possible that we're watching a catastrophic conflict unfold. I think it's probably time for some very tough but mature talk, perhaps even an ill-advised trip to the region.

Republicans love to ridicule Obama's eloquence and teleprompter skills, but perhaps a bit of high speech and calming influence can diffuse this nuclear bomb. It's better than actual bombs, and it just might work.
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Re: Exodus 2

Postby Mad Howler » Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:02 am

So what happens if and when the Muslim Brotherhood regains control? More sectarian violence, revenge killings, political persecution and perhaps civil war? I think the President's tempered approach to Syria has been understandable. I'm not going to second guess his decisions when I only have a fraction of the facts. But Egypt is a different creature and what happens in Egypt may have a ripple effect across the entire Middle East. I think it's very possible that we're watching a catastrophic conflict unfold. I think it's probably time for some very tough but mature talk, perhaps even an ill-advised trip to the region.

Let us expect those who care about evil within this context do good.
Let ANY of us who have capacity to compel those capable of good to do so.
Let us hope our collective accountability for the actions of our empire have not out stripped our collective authority over it.
'Cause ya know, no one likes to be a bag holder and it looks like 98% of us could be headed there.
This would be sad left owing to inaction.
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