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Syria

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Syria

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:48 am

I think chemical weapons matter. They will be used more and more if there is no response. I see this as a situation similar to Bosnia in the 1990's, or the Jewish concentration camps in the 1930's.

A hands-off policy on Syria has led to the worst possible scenario: a large area of Syria (and soon Iraq) controlled by jihadists. And now Assad is using chemical weapons as an effective strategy to displace populations.
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Re: Syria

Postby Donald » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:21 am

I agree regarding chemical/biological weapons. It's simply unacceptable to use them, and it's illegal under international law. The fact that the US, under a Republican administration, looked the other way when Saddam Hussein used these weapons against the Kurds and others sent a very bad signal, and it led to other nations, including Iran and Syria developing these weapons.

No use of these weapons is acceptable even by our so-called friends.
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Re: Syria

Postby Bludgeon » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:36 am

Huckleby wrote:I think chemical weapons matter. They will be used more and more if there is no response. I see this as a situation similar to Bosnia in the 1990's, or the Jewish concentration camps in the 1930's.

A hands-off policy on Syria has led to the worst possible scenario: a large area of Syria (and soon Iraq) controlled by jihadists. And now Assad is using chemical weapons as an effective strategy to displace populations.


I call it the result of a world of nations trying to convince themselves this 'Arab Spring' is something that exists outside the western mind. Look at Egypt, look at Syria, look at Libya, look at the Middle East. These are not "Peoples Revolutions" embracing democratic socialism. If ideological proponents were not so intent on fooling themselves, perhaps these new series of massacres would not be so shocking.
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Re: Syria

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:37 am

Donald wrote:The fact that the US, under a Republican administration, looked the other way when Saddam Hussein used these weapons against the Kurds and others sent a very bad signal, and it led to other nations, including Iran and Syria developing these weapons.

It was more than that. The Reagan administration helped Saddam procure those weapons.
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Re: Syria

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Aug 27, 2013 11:17 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Donald wrote:The fact that the US, under a Republican administration, looked the other way when Saddam Hussein used these weapons against the Kurds and others sent a very bad signal, and it led to other nations, including Iran and Syria developing these weapons.

It was more than that. The Reagan administration helped Saddam procure those weapons.

Well duh, back then he was only going to use them on Iranians.

Good thing we have a clear ally to aid in the Syrian conflict who we won't regret helping put in power at all.
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Re: Syria

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:32 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Good thing we have a clear ally to aid in the Syrian conflict who we won't regret helping put in power at all.


We do. The majority of the Free Syrian Army are fine. The rebels concentrated in the south near the Jordan border in particular can be organized and strengthened. The rebels in the North and East are a mixture of workable partners and Islamicists.

It is Bashir Assad's propaganda and over-simplified thinking that has defined the war as a two-way struggle between Assad and al-Qaeda.

BTW, I think we need to react to the use of chemical weapons, regardless of our policy on or interests in the Syrian civil war.
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Re: Syria

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:16 pm

"France is ready to punish those who took the heinous decision to gas innocents" in Syria last week, Hollande said at a conference with France's ambassadors. He did not elaborate.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/2 ... 23398.html

I think for once we should not have to be the country to "take the lead" I think time has been taken to build a strong coalition and now lets those who at least live near the region take the first steps. We can back those steps up.
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Re: Syria

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:26 pm

Stebben84 wrote: I think for once we should not have to be the country to "take the lead" I think time has been taken to build a strong coalition and now lets those who at least live near the region take the first steps. We can back those steps up.


Actually, it is the U.S. that is being dragged into the "coalition of the willing." France, Great Britain, Turkey, Gulf States...... have been wanting air strikes for a year.
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Re: Syria

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:15 pm

Huckleby wrote:It is Bashir Assad's propaganda and over-simplified thinking that has defined the war as a two-way struggle between Assad and al-Qaeda.

Yes, Obama's use of Jihadists to do his dirty work in the region is blowing up in his face.
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Re: Syria

Postby baked goods » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:33 pm

There are reports of large scale movements of aircraft to the British Sovereign Base Area on Cyprus. Clearly an air strike is in order. Of course, since Obama called the shots here this bombing will be framed as ethical by the left and the liberal media. Gotta love partisan bombings.

Hopefully we get to see some entertaining raging hippies and hipsters on Willy St tomorrow. Something good needs to come of this.
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Re: Syria

Postby gargantua » Tue Aug 27, 2013 4:45 pm

baked goods wrote:Clearly an air strike is in order. Of course, since Obama called the shots here this bombing will be framed as ethical by the left and the liberal media.


So, we should do nothing about Assad's use of chemical weapons on women and children. Got it.
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Re: Syria

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:09 pm

baked goods wrote: Of course, since Obama called the shots here this bombing will be framed as ethical by the left and the liberal media. Gotta love partisan bombings.


What rubbish. People who are anti-war don't favor democrats. Remember Michael Moore's movie damning Clinton's Bosnia intervention?

Humanitarian interventions are broadly popular regardless of who is in office. Then they rather quickly become unpopular as they tend to drag on or become complicated.

Analysing every issue in partisian terms is {redacted}
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Re: Syria

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:24 pm

Some were against the Vietnam War when they were draft eliglbe, but when Bush invaded Iraq and let al Qaeda and the their ilk spread throughout the Middele East, they approved that move. Like Dick Cheney and at least a few on this forum. April Spring indeed. Or as Rumsfeld said, this type of democracy can be messy indeed.
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Re: Syria

Postby snoqueen » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:38 pm

Chemical weapons are against international law and are grounds for military intervention, but will that military intervention result in yet more loss of innocent lives? I am asking this question in the spirit of the discussion of the use of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki we had here in the last couple weeks.

I don't have an answer, I just think that's got to be part of the discussion at the same time international law is referred to. There may be bad and less-bad options, and we need to give the less-bad ones a chance to appear.

I do agree being part of an international coalition is far more desirable than doing a nearly-solo invasion the way we did with Iraq. That way, there are more viewpoints in play and more reasonable questions, possibilities, and cautions to consider. It's the very opposite of analyzing everything in narrowly partisan terms.
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Re: Syria

Postby Huckleby » Tue Aug 27, 2013 7:22 pm

snoqueen wrote:Chemical weapons are against international law and are grounds for military intervention, but will that military intervention result in yet more loss of innocent lives?

I don't think the bombing itself is likely to cause widespread loss of innocent life. But it could be a catalyst that accelerates the civil war without leading to a favorable outcome, that's the moral risk.
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