MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Friday, July 25, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 70.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up online

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up online

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:34 pm

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/w ... 6be01.html

:shock:

Point #1:

"I think it could raise significant safety risks for folks who are victims of stalking or victims of domestic abuse to know that their stalker or abuser would simply be able to go to a website and effectively track their movements as they move through downtown," she says.

YES. This should be a no-brainer.

Point #2:

[Rich Beadles, information technology manager for the city of Madison] points out that live-streaming the video would not give the public the ability to capture and save it...

[Chris Ahmuty, executive director of the Wisconsin ACLU] also worries that while the video is live-streamed and not downloadable, it's only a matter of time before someone finds a way to capture and store it.

Massive technology fail for both of you. Here's a tiny, tiny hint:
IF IT'S ON THE INTERNET, IT'S RECORDABLE. EASILY.
ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2792
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:59 pm

ilikebeans wrote:Massive technology fail for both of you. Here's a tiny, tiny hint:
IF IT'S ON THE INTERNET, IT'S RECORDABLE. EASILY.


No shit. Where the hell have these two been buried for the last decade?

Google "video stream capture software free" viola, we have a technological breakthrough.

Toss in face recognition software and Stalkers/abusers can have themselves all kinds of fun.


I don't see any real purpose to making these feeds publicly available. Any gain from an internet "neighborhood watch" reporting an actual crime is going to be outweighed by the sheer volume of imagined crimes being reported.
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2184
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby snoqueen » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:35 pm

I'm not sure I agree. On a public sidewalk and in public places you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. I would rather have as many eyes/cameras as possible seeing and recording to guard against the one official version being lost or tampered with.

Recall how the power of the numerous synoptic versions of the Capitol arrests. Everybody with an internet connection could see how citizens were being treated.

We have a similar right and need to all be able to see what is happening on the street, if possible in real time. If citizens are for some reason not present with their phones, we need to be able to see the observation cams' record.

Think what a difference this would have made in the Baldwin St. incident.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11291
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Oct 23, 2013 3:39 pm

Big Brother was never the real danger. It was the rise of a nation of Little Brothers.
green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2847
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby Detritus » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:36 pm

Why am I not surprised that the information technology manager for the City of Madison does not know how the Internet works? The damn backbone runs right through this town--you'd think we could get someone who understands it running IT for the city, wouldn't you?
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2352
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby peripat » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:45 pm

I doubt it is really a matter of not understanding, just an attempt at misdirection.
peripat
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 963
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:59 am

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:54 pm

Detritus wrote:Why am I not surprised that the information technology manager for the City of Madison does not know how the Internet works? The damn backbone runs right through this town--you'd think we could get someone who understands it running IT for the city, wouldn't you?

Would it surprise you to know that when the RealPlayer livestreaming capabilities of MCC-12 were getting maxed out (at something like 20 concurrent streams) that instead of finding a more accessible, scalable and cost-effective livestreaming method, they instead simply paid a ton to raise the limit on their outdated tech to ... 100 concurrent users.
green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2847
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby Detritus » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:12 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:
Detritus wrote:Why am I not surprised that the information technology manager for the City of Madison does not know how the Internet works? The damn backbone runs right through this town--you'd think we could get someone who understands it running IT for the city, wouldn't you?

Would it surprise you to know that when the RealPlayer livestreaming capabilities of MCC-12 were getting maxed out (at something like 20 concurrent streams) that instead of finding a more accessible, scalable and cost-effective livestreaming method, they instead simply paid a ton to raise the limit on their outdated tech to ... 100 concurrent users.

Only in the sense that I didn't know they did that. I believe the original fish cam did better than that back in '94.
Detritus
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2352
Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:30 am

snoqueen wrote:I'm not sure I agree. On a public sidewalk and in public places you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. I would rather have as many eyes/cameras as possible seeing and recording to guard against the one official version being lost or tampered with.

Recall how the power of the numerous synoptic versions of the Capitol arrests. Everybody with an internet connection could see how citizens were being treated.

We have a similar right and need to all be able to see what is happening on the street, if possible in real time. If citizens are for some reason not present with their phones, we need to be able to see the observation cams' record.

Think what a difference this would have made in the Baldwin St. incident.



You raise an interesting point. There is not an expectation of privacy, but we usually think of that in terms of the government watching us, not our fellow citizens. There is definitely a benefit to the public being able to monitor and watch the activities going on in public places, however as was pointed out there is also a public safety risk involved.

I guess the question becomes do we also have a right to an expectation of safety in public places and when those two expectations conflict which has precedence?
Francis Di Domizio
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2184
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:11 pm
Location: Milwaukee, WI

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby green union terrace chair » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:56 am

No expectation of privacy != Expectation of monitoring, recording and broadcast of all public activity.
green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2847
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby gozer » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:42 pm

don't they make custom paint-ball gun pellets that can be used to spatter camera lenses unto the functional equivalent of being opaque with bird shit without doing permanent harm? i'm pretty sure that either microsoft, the c i a , or swapo came up with this kind of thing quite some time ago.

just make a list and map of the cameras, get 20 shooters and 10 drivers and blast all the cameras one night in 10 minutes' time. that's my suggestion. if u are worried about cops driving by, set some tyres on fire in the middle of the street in strategic locations. i recommend police scanners and smoke bombs for each of the vehicles. wait till a night of dense fog or a dust storm if u can . . .
gozer
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2243
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:35 pm
Location: everywhere

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:25 am

gozer wrote:don't they make custom paint-ball gun pellets that can be used to spatter camera lenses unto the functional equivalent of being opaque with bird shit without doing permanent harm? i'm pretty sure that either microsoft, the c i a , or swapo came up with this kind of thing quite some time ago.

just make a list and map of the cameras, get 20 shooters and 10 drivers and blast all the cameras one night in 10 minutes' time. that's my suggestion. if u are worried about cops driving by, set some tyres on fire in the middle of the street in strategic locations. i recommend police scanners and smoke bombs for each of the vehicles. wait till a night of dense fog or a dust storm if u can . . .

Gozer, you're such a romatntic.
green union terrace chair
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2847
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Memorial Union

Re: Footage from surveillance cameras downtown may end up on

Postby manoletters » Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:33 pm

Optical Intrusion indeed. The deterrent effect of this kind of massive surveillance may be effective in preventing conscientious, law abiding citizens from jaywalking too brazenly, I suppose. But the people who have nowhere else to go? The people who literally sleep on the sidewalk? The people who lack any income whatsoever, or receive just enough to keep them (perhaps) one step above abject poverty? Who among us really believes desperate people are about to stop and think about Big Brother's ubiquitous cameras before slinging an 8-ball of rock cocaine? Who really thinks the "Eye in the Sky" will stop some poor, uneducated dude from beating someone up in the heat of passion? Oh, right. The real motivation behind installing more and more spycams isn't to PREVENT street crime; it's to utilize the ever-increasing capabilities of the technology, which is now more than ever able to capture images for analysis by facial recognition software, in real time. Not to mention the potential intimidation of political activists alluded to in this article.

Our startlingly authoritarian authorities will relish each new opportunity to use the footage obtained against prospective defendants in a court of law. Consider: Dane County's sherriff recently informed the community that he's interested in building a new jail. Consider: Dane County has taken some positive steps toward reducing the incarcerated population here; it's now down to about 800, from a high a few years back of over 1100. Build a new jail? If we do, enough new inmates to overpopulate the place will surely be enthusiastically sought after by local law enforcement.

But taking genuine, positive steps to enhance public safety would require something other than implementing additional "1984" strategies. Taking into account all that's been done to benefit the privileged Downtown, and how little has been accomplished to help those in true and dire need... I'll simply quote Franklin Delano Roosevelt, speaking at his 1936 inaugural:
"... the test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little."
manoletters
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 200
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:30 pm
Location: Madison, WI


Return to Local Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar