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"15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

"15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:32 am

Something to lighten things up...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/05/09 ... fferences/

(1) Republicans fear that the government has too much control over corporations. Democrats fear that corporations have too much control over our government...

(15) Democrats believe that too much money in politics produces corruption and destroys the American way of life. Republicans believe that money and corruption in politics are the American way of life.

These are just my observations from a lifetime of watching Democratic and Republican politicians. I’m sure some Republican will come up with their own clever list.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:14 am

Well, you're right. That list was worth a good laugh.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby bleurose » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:43 am

It's funny only if you're among the no to low information demographic. Which sadly, is way too many among the electorate.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby rabble » Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:51 am

jonnygothispen wrote:
(15) Democrats believe that too much money in politics produces corruption and destroys the American way of life. Republicans believe that money and corruption in politics are the American way of life.

I don't get it. The Republicans are correct about that.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:04 pm

bleurose wrote:It's funny only if you're among the no to low information demographic. Which sadly, is way too many among the electorate.
Well, yeah, Democrats are far more mindful of and obedient to what their corporate owners want than the list suggests. The Green party would fit that description far more accurately. But there are still quite a few Democrats who believe in that philosophy.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:13 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Well, yeah, Democrats are far more mindful of and obedient to what their corporate owners want than the list suggests. The Green party would fit that description far more accurately. But there are still quite a few Democrats who believe in that philosophy.


Republicans too, for that matter. Stereotyping sure is fun though, isn't it.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Bland » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:19 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Stereotyping sure is fun though, isn't it.
That's exactly what someone like you would say.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:27 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:Well, yeah, Democrats are far more mindful of and obedient to what their corporate owners want than the list suggests. The Green party would fit that description far more accurately. But there are still quite a few Democrats who believe in that philosophy.


Republicans too, for that matter. Stereotyping sure is fun though, isn't it.
I like what Ralph Nader said about it...

"The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is the speed at which they drop to their knees when corporations call."

Republicans never seem to get up off their knees, whereas even the worst Democrats usually put up a bit of a fight first before they drop.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Detritus » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:12 pm

This kind of thing would make more sense if the authors clearly separated Democrats/Republicans in terms of the people who vote for politicians of certain parties and in terms of the politicians in those parties who hold power. For example, I don't believe that most Democratic voters believe in the national security state at all to the extent that Democratic politicians in Congress and the White House seem to, and polling makes it clear that Republican voters are not as batshit crazy about shutting down the government (and the economy) as the teaper clique in the House. Moreover, there is no daylight between the two sets of politicians when it comes to the corporatization of public education and the demonization of working teachers, despite rather large differences between the two corresponding groups in the voting public.

Without this kind of differentiation, all the author has done is transferred NFL team loyalty into the political sphere, which makes for a stable audience but ultimately feeds only the corporate sponsors, team owners, media outlets, and a handful of millionaire players.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:20 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:I like what Ralph Nader said about it...

"The only difference between Democrats and Republicans is the speed at which they drop to their knees when corporations call."

Republicans never seem to get up off their knees, whereas even the worst Democrats usually put up a bit of a fight first before they drop.


Overall both parties have a significant portion of their elected members who won't jump without the say so of a special interest. I don't buy the theory that corporations are the only bad special interest out there, or that all corporate influence is bad. I'd also call bullshit on any claim that Democrats are significantly more resistant to corporate pressure.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:29 pm

Corporations outspend Unions by 15:1 in political donations. Everyone knows who butters their bread.

The difference between Pubs and Dems has drastically narrowed on the federal level.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:54 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Corporations outspend Unions by 15:1 in political donations. Everyone knows who butters their bread.

The difference between Pubs and Dems has drastically narrowed on the federal level.


I find it fascinating that you jumped to defend unions immediately. Special interests go beyond Unions and Corporations.

As to your second statement: no, not really. They've never been all that far apart to begin with.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:01 pm

What I find amazing is how you find "flaws" in my statements by guessing at what I mean.

What I'm "defending" is a way of life that works for more people, and is better for everyone. If corporations provide that fine. If unions provide that, fine. If some other entity provides that, cool.

The fact remains that corporations in control of Congress and the President bought the deregulation that allowed the economic crash, and then the politicians they own bailed them out at the expense of the people they screwed over. Unions didn't do that.

Because of large campaign donors, we've also experienced a massive amount of wealth redistribution policies to the top that has stagnated the economy. That generally comes from corporations too, not unions.

We now have a Gov't run health care exchange/plan that was designed to benefit the insurance companies more than the people. I'm sure the $1 billion health insurers poured into politicians pockets and into ads the 2 years prior had nothing to do with that, right? That also came from corporations, not unions.

While I recognize that in many areas, Reps and Dems are similar or even identical, I also understand there are key differences depending on each individual, but also in general.

Right now, Democrats are proposing a dramatic minimum wage increase that has no chance of passing because of Republicans.

If the winner of the 2000 election would've become President, it's highly likely 9-11 could've been thwarted. I sincerely doubt Gore would've ignored the 60 + warnings Bush had. But if he couldn't have prevented 9-11, it's even far more likely we never would've invaded Iraq, which drained trillions more from the economy. It's also very likely Gore would've cracked down on the banks when Federal regulators saw the crisis coming in early 2005 whereas Bush buckled to banks demands. There's also absolutely no doubt that Global warming wouldn't have been ignored under a Gore Presidency. And it's highly unlikely Gore would've pushed through the tax cuts to the top that have created massive debt.

Those are significant differences in my world.

On the flip side, Obama has been far more corporate than I thought he would be. Things you would take for granted from other Democrats you won't see with Obama. You can also argue that Clinton should not have allowed NAFTA to pass without environmental and worker safety and wage standards, and name a bunch of policies where he could've been more progressive. But there are also such huge differences between them on certain things I can't buy that you really believe what you said unless you're just being one sided to make a point.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:00 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:What I find amazing is how you find "flaws" in my statements by guessing at what I mean.


Interesting. My point was that you assumed I was talking about unions in your response. Not that I found "flaws" in your statement. Clearly you wanted to defend union participation in elections, which I hadn't even addressed. Corporate involvement on both sides of the two party system is more than enough of a problem without looking for more issues. Not that I don't think Unions have a strong influence on some Democratic officials, but that wasn't my point nor was in even inferred, yet that's where you jumped.

jonnygothispen wrote:The fact remains that corporations in control of Congress and the President bought the deregulation that allowed the economic crash, and then the politicians they own bailed out the people who caused the crash using the money of the people the bankers screwed over. Unions didn't do that.


On the other hand when the industries being bailed out involved union jobs, you bet your ass the unions and the politicians they own were on board.

jonnygothispen wrote:If the winner of the 2000 election would've become President, it's highly likely 9-11 could've been thwarted.

Sure and if Nixon had challenged the vote in Illinois in 1960, there's a chance Vietnam wouldn't have happened. Actually, that's more likely than Gore changing the outcome of 9-11.

jonnygothispen wrote:On the flip side, Obama has been far more corporate than I thought he would be. Things you would take for granted from other Democrats you won't see with Obama. You can also argue that Clinton should not have allowed NAFTA to pass without environmental and worker safety and wage standards, and name a bunch of policies where he could've been more progressive. But there are also such huge differences between them on certain things I can't buy that you really believe what you said unless you're being dramatic to make a point.


The only point I'm making is that you have an incredibly idealistic view of the Democratic party's elected officials. Look at the list Ned posted a few weeks ago. It's fairly pointless for tracking who's spending more since it spans 25 years, but it gives a good indication of where corporate America spends it's money, and it looks fairly even. Especially when you look at the financial industry.
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Re: "15 differences between Dems & Reps"

Postby jonnygothispen » Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:49 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Interesting. My point was that you assumed I was talking about unions in your response. Not that I found "flaws" in your statement. Clearly you wanted to defend union participation in elections, which I hadn't even addressed. Corporate involvement on both sides of the two party system is more than enough of a problem without looking for more issues. Not that I don't think Unions have a strong influence on some Democratic officials, but that wasn't my point nor was in even inferred, yet that's where you jumped.
I wasn't assuming that you were talking about unions. I wasn't defending union participation. I was off on a tangent addressing the voice in my head that said "It' be great if there was no outside money involved" and qualifying that for people who weren't aware of that imbalance.

On the other hand when the industries being bailed out involved union jobs, you bet your ass the unions and the politicians they own were on board.
I usually focus on the more major of the problems. The $4-$9 trillion bank bailouts stick out a bit more than the tens of billions the Auto makers got. Likewise, I'd follow that with the wars in the Middle East and descend until we got to the Automakers. I think the best way to resolve problems is to go after the ones that have the most adverse effects first.


Sure and if Nixon had challenged the vote in Illinois in 1960, there's a chance Vietnam wouldn't have happened. Actually, that's more likely than Gore changing the outcome of 9-11.
I disagree with that. Kennedy would've pulled out if he would've lived past the 1964 election. Gore affirmed that there was no way he would've invaded Iraq with the info Bush had. Plus, with his focus on secured cockpits in 1997 to prevent terrorist hijackings, and the fact that he wouldn't have had 10 or so PNAC members in his cabinet like Bush did makes me believe he would've taken the 60 or so warnings about the coming attacks far more seriously.

The only point I'm making is that you have an incredibly idealistic view of the Democratic party's elected officials. Look at the list Ned posted a few weeks ago. It's fairly pointless for tracking who's spending more since it spans 25 years, but it gives a good indication of where corporate America spends it's money, and it looks fairly even. Especially when you look at the financial industry.
I posted this thread as a joke as I totally realize how bad the Democratic party is. That's what they're supposed to stand for, and quite a few members still do, but not enough of them although I don't know what the %-age would be.

I voted for Nader in 2008, and only voted for Obama in 2012 because I think Romney would've been smooth enough to pull off even more wealth redistribution to the top on top of what BU$H did. Obama reminds me of the kid from Holland with his finger in the dyke. He pulls it out at times, but sticks it back in. With Mitt, it would've been a buffet of wealth redistribution.

I've also promised myself that I'm not voting for either of the 2 major parties unless I see real change. Not that my vote matters, I'm not wealthy enough to buy the kind of policies I'd like to see. So I'm sticking my hopes at the local level now.

IMO, we've hit the iceberg and we're about to go under, if we haven't already.
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