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Race, justice, and fear

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Race, justice, and fear

Postby kurt_w » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:40 am

Bludgeon wants me to move the discussion of the Conrad Alvin Barrett case out of the Fred Phelps thread:

Bludgeon wrote:Even better, do so in the proper thread


Sorry I didn't notice that last night when I replied in that thread. I will move it here.

-------------------------------------

For anyone who missed the discussion in the Phelps thread, here's the background.

* Bludgeon calls US Attorney General Eric Holder "human garbage" because

(a) Bludgeon believes he has instituted a "stated policy" of "not policing any black on white civil crimes of any sort",

and (b) Bludgeon is angry that one of Holder's underlings in Texas filed hate-crimes charges against Conrad Alvin Barrett. (In Bludgeon's words, the Barrett case is proof that Holder "goes out of his way to find white people to convict").

Here's my explanation of why Mr Barrett is being charged:

kurt_w wrote:No, Bludgeon. [Barrett was] arrested because he:

(1) Records multiple videos of himself musing about randomly attacking a black person for fun, including one in which he drives around a mall parking lot talking about how he's working up the courage to do it;

(2) Finally settles on a 79-year-old black guy as his target, bashes him in the face and sends him to the hospital for four days; and then

(3) Makes the mistake of showing the video he filmed of himself assaulting the old guy to a random (white) stranger in a bar, who calls a cop to report the crime.

It is very rare to have such indisputable, clear-cut evidence of intent in a hate-crime case. This guy freakin' videotaped himself planning the crime, explicitly stated on the video that it was about race, then videoed himself committing the crime, and then showed the videos to a stranger.

That's why this guy is being prosecuted. Get it?


Bludgeon's response:

Bludgeon wrote:You would like to think so. I'd be surprised if the guy was not a ringer.


"a ringer"? WTF does that mean? You mean this is all some kind of hoax?

Anyway, continuing:

Bludgeon wrote:Get with Holder's program - they're sticking by their policy of not policing any black on white civil crimes of any sort - this is Holder's stated policy.


kurt_w wrote:Really? I'd be very interested in seeing a link to the exact wording of that "stated policy".

My guess it's just paranoid fantasies on some right-wing blog. But you seem certain of its truth, so please share.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby Stebben84 » Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:46 am

Bludgeon wrote:That's right. And they also go out of their way to avoid reporting the races of the attackers and the victims, or to point out that it's a hate crime.


I'm just pulling this from another thread so we can continue the discussion. The above is total bullshit. Most of the media's coverage of the knockout game includes videos these kids have posted online. It clearly shows their race and the race of the victim. There was an instance when a Jewish man was hit, and the reporter interviewed many in the community who were calling this a hate crime. To say the media was "covering up" that fact is delusional. In most of the circumstances these acts were totally random and not premeditated. Often times the media would find these videos and call them the "knockout game" without even knowing if that was the case. Random violence occurs. Kurt pointed out a calculated attack by this individual, but Bludge can't see past his partisan views and finds it necessary to attack anything someone in the Obama administration does. The attacker made it a race issue not Holder.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:28 pm

Very nice, now you can stalk your own thread. Really the place for it is in the OP thread, why you ever wandered out of there I don't understand; you've really just made a disorganized mess -- one that's more than I'm interested in cleaning up. Little tip for you, I do not troll my own posts either. If I start a thread and I don't get back to you in the same day, it's because I want the thread to develop a tone of it's own and take on the arguments of other people. Then I come back and respond to a few of the good ones. My post was about how Clinton is not going to get the nomination because the reigning coalition of academic elitists and their slaves on food stamps are never going to intentionally turn to a pro-working class candidate again.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby kurt_w » Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:59 pm

Oh, spare us all the offended-prima-donna act. Nobody is "stalking" you.

You made a bunch of wild claims. I don't think I'm the only person here who found them un-believable.

Let's keep it simple and just take these two:

What the hell do you mean by claiming that Conrad Barrett, the guy arrested for assaulting an elderly black man in Texas, was "just a ringer"?

And where's your evidence that Eric Holder's justice department has some kind of "stated policy" (your words) of "not policing any black on white civil crimes of any sort".

You're spending more time moaning about this than it would take to just answer.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:37 am

Someone said that knockout game attacks were un-premeditated.

I don't know if this is technically true from a legal standpoint but they do often seem to be pre-meditated.

Not for the specific person, which may be why it doesn't meet the legal definition. But in many cases it seems like the people playing the game go out with the specific intention of knocking someone out. Their victims seem to be semi-random. They seem to be chosen for their skin color, perhaps because of Jewishness in some cases, and because they are a target of opportunity.

Seems like pre-meditation to me.

These attacks also do not seem to be happening as frequently in areas where 2A rights to be armed are respected.

The key to the knockout game is that the victim has to actually be a victim. That is, someone who cannot or will not fight back. Or at least perceived as such. There have been a couple case where the game players have made mistakes.

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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:39 am

"Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away."

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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby jman111 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:44 am

Someone said...

I don't know if this is technically true from a legal standpoint but they do often seem to be...

...it seems like...

...seem to be...

They seem to be...

Seems like... to me.

...also do not seem to be...

Ol' JH reports, you decide.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby kurt_w » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:18 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:I don't know if this is technically true from a legal standpoint but they do often seem to be pre-meditated.

The best evidence I've seen for "premeditated" is the Barrett case that Bludgeon brought up.

As I noted above, the guy repeatedly videoed himself beforehand talking about planning the attack (and wondering whether it would get him on TV). He also made it specifically clear that the point was to attack a black person. He then videoed himself doing the actual assault.

The race-obsessed Bludgeon finds it outrageous that the Justice Department is pursuing this guy. The problem apparently is that Barrett is white. For some reason Bludgeon is psychologically incapable of admitting that the US attorney in Texas did the right thing by charging Barrett.

So he decided it's all a hoax, or something.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby Mad Howler » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:58 pm

Since this new thread is angling attention to what essentially are hate tactics,
Let me freshen a link from the past thread.
http://www.chaunceydevega.com/2014/03/m ... nihan.html
What is not stated in the link is the tight relationship of these 'players' with the money players and why these narratives are so important.
Are these irritants essential to hold on to because hate is an essential tool?
If so, this seems inconceivable and it is hard to imagine why rational conservatives let the discourse arrive here.
Perhaps I am too naive.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:06 am

jman111 wrote:Ol' JH reports, you decide.


Absolutely, I would be very disappointed if it were otherwise.

ABC:

Always
Be
Curious (and skeptical)

Interesting comments on the note style. Apparently we are in agreement with the substance?

John Henry
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:13 am

kurt_w wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:I don't know if this is technically true from a legal standpoint but they do often seem to be pre-meditated.

The best evidence I've seen for "premeditated" is the Barrett case that Bludgeon brought up.


That was my question.

If a person decides "I am going to go out and beat up John Smith today" that would pretty clearly be pre-meditation in the legal sense.

But if a person plans an attack against a non-specific person "I am going to go out and beat up a black (or white) person today" does that meet the legal definition of pre-meditated?

If yes, many of the knockout game attacks against whites and Jews would meet the same definition, wouldn't they?

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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby jman111 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:03 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Apparently we are in agreement with the substance?

You've clearly misread.
Maybe another parallax problem.
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:08 am

jman111 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Apparently we are in agreement with the substance?

You've clearly misread.
Maybe another parallax problem.


So what did you disagree with other than writing style?

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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby kurt_w » Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:32 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:If yes, many of the knockout game attacks against whites and Jews would meet the same definition, wouldn't they?

I haven't paid much attention to this "game" since my impression is that it was vastly over-hyped in the media, and sure enough it seems to have disappeared back into obscurity again. I hadn't even heard of the Barrett case until Bludgeon linked to coverage of it.

But having now forced myself to read up on it, I think what makes the Barrett case unique is the existence of video evidence from before the crime, in which the alleged criminal specifically discusses his plans in advance.

I doubt there are any other cases exactly like this. But if there are cases elsewhere with similarly strong evidence, I'd certainly agree that they should be prosecuted similarly (either by the Feds or the state, if they're in a state with an enforceable hate-crimes law).
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Re: Race, justice, and fear

Postby kurt_w » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:20 am

kurt_w wrote:[...] my impression is that it was vastly over-hyped in the media, and sure enough it seems to have disappeared back into obscurity again.

Here's the past decade of references to "knockout game" via Google Trends:

Image

As I said, a week of panicked hype by the media followed by a return to obscurity ... except in the right-wing blogosphere, which thrives on this kind of thing and can't bear to let it go.
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